What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby Raz » March 1st, 2014, 12:02 pm

Stoneheart wrote:Imo we can broaden the spectrum of the site's range of interests. We have Minecraft servers and a TF2 server, right? Get the word out about those, bring people in. Find ways we can bring the public in, and what makes the public tick.

A lot of the time if I'm aware, a site is brought to the attention of people because of what they search to find us. As of right now, Last Legacy and SM63 are the only ones, and LL isn't all that popular as its in beta. So what else do we do and have that could draw people in? Maybe pitch together and make ♥♥♥♥, give ourselves a big name for being one of the nice communities of the internet.

This is just a thought.

Just saying but our tf2 server is definitely not a selling point, maybe not even the minecraft server.
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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby Venexis » March 1st, 2014, 10:23 pm

I think the Minecraft server could be, more than the TF2 one. Apparently servers like ours are in high-ish demand, the whole not huge, trusting community thing. It would probably mean I'd need to upgrade though.
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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby Harmless » March 1st, 2014, 11:05 pm

Come to think of it, half of the forum topics (like the Art Forum, GT forums, etc) aren't even used. If we can get interest in all of our forums then we'll have a better chance at a bigger community. Right now the only real topics I see people posting in is Forum Games, SM63 portal and level designer forum, Last Legacy forum, and Gaming... that's about it besides SD and News and stuff.
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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby *Emelia K. Fletcher » March 2nd, 2014, 1:51 am

It's not even our TF2 server, it's Suyo's and pretty much has no link to us


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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

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Postby Runouw » March 3rd, 2014, 12:03 am

Here's some data that might be helpful for the discussion.

This is a graph of visits of the website (excluding forums) over time:
Runouw.com: show
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Here is the same graph for the forums:
Runouw forums: show
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(ignore the first and last months being off, that's because it truncates the months)
As you can see, there has been a steady decline in views over the years.

Since our goal is to investigate why the forums are "dying", we should try to find out what the REAL problem is. Note that the decreased popularity of the forums correlate with the amount of views the site gets in general. My guess is that the visits on the website are almost directly correlated with the popularity of SM63. Games like Last Legacy dwarf in comparison to the amount of views a Mario game brings in. So the reduction in activity in the forums is likely to be because I haven't made a popular game recently.

As for ideas to make the forums more active. We need to see through the eyes of newcomers and find out why or why not they are staying.

I'll try to summarize the reason why a user will be at the site and what they would be interested in doing.
A user may be at the site for the following reasons:
  • Redirected from SM63 / Last Legacy:
    Potential interests:
    • Participating in the portal (voting for, and submitting levels)
      Possible outcomes:
      • Makes an account to post levels, but never posts on forums. (note that since the user is required to post before they can submit a level, this is a serious problem)
      • Forums are too complicated/too much of a commitment. Never posts their level.
        Possible reasons:
        • Takes too many clicks to create an account and authenticate it and then learn how to use the form to submit a level.
        • Users doesn't feel like being social (but still wanted to share level).
        • Users are required to post in the welcome topic. Could be too much work, or a barrier for non-native english speakers.
      • Makes account, posts levels, also participates in the forums.
    • To play more games like it
      Possible outcomes:
      • Goes to forums to read about game (guides, glitches, ect)
      • Goes to forums to talk about game (be a fan, speculation, glitches, suggestions, criticism, ect.)
      • Never visits the forums.
    • Joining the forums
      • Can't get past anti-bot measures. (This could very well be possible)
      • Was a member a long time ago, can't remember username/password and has to re-reg only to be perma-banned.
      • Lurks and doesn't see anything he/she is interested in.
        Possible reasons:
        • Site's graphics or organization aren't good/clear enough
        • Users on the site bully new members
        • Forums are too inactive
  • Told about the site from a friend
    Potential interests:
    • Playing games
      Possible outcomes:
      • Likes the games (see above section "Redirected from SM63 / Last Legacy")
    • Playing friend's level
      Possible outcomes:
      • "Eww forums". Visitor leaves. (Solution would be to make a level page that is on the site and not the forums)
      • User plays level, but is not able to vote without an account and is not interested in making an account.
      • User makes an account just to vote. Becomes inactive because they don't want to post in welcome topic.
      • User is genuinely interested in forums and joins forums.
    • Joining forums
  • Is a bot
    Potential interests:
    • Crawling (not exactly harmful)
    • Creating accounts (thousands of accounts!!)
    • Posting junk (almost always taken care of my mods)

Things like having LDCs more often and putting up Minecraft/TF2 servers won't really help with the activity of the forums because the number of people that participate in those are a small fraction of the already small amount of active users.

There are a number of things I would like to do to improve the experience for new members on the site. One of them is to remove the requirement of an account on the forums to participate in the level designer. This goes for the portal and even level designer contests. I realize that the reason why you need an account is for anti-bot measures. But bots can be stopped in other ways too. The next thing I would like to do is fix the forum's graphics. The forum's graphics are outdated and contrast the rest of the website a lot (and the buttons in the header sometimes don't even work!). I made a post about updating the graphics with a mock-up I made, but I never have the time to get around to it. If there were any members interested in helping out there it would be great. The next improvement I'd like to see is to re-organize the forum sections. It's outdated and confusing to navigate. I often times mess up trying to find a section like the Last Legacy user submitted levels VS the level portal. And as mentioned earlier, a section for GT and the Smash Bros engine isn't really needed.

Some ideas I had for bringing in more users to the site was to start up a YouTube channel with WiTBLoaT featured videos as well as videos of the LDC results or even videos like developer commentary or even let's plays. If anyone wants to get those kind of things going they should contact me.
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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby MessengerOfDreams » March 3rd, 2014, 12:11 am

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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby nin10mode » March 3rd, 2014, 12:51 am

Haha, so we really do need a rehaul, don't we? Of even greater proportions than the threads in F23 suggested. You've reestablished my belief that there is something called 'too safe' and that it would probably be better if the Level Mod/Mod workload was compensated for an easier process to join. I actually didn't mind the old level moderating process when I actually level moderated. I did feel that the change would never catch on, I think. Spambots really can be fixed some other way, and I don't think I would mind users having report races to get that now-nonexistant policing medal. The Timeline(damn, is it useful) says the Level Portal was 'rehauled' in May 2012, so it makes sense that we got a rapid increase in users in overall visits that gradually declined since then. It also looks like the point at which the forum's decline began. The final anti-spam measure seemingly took place in December, so it's effect is probably hidden beneath the decline originally caused by the new level portal.

Unfortunately, this is all backtracking on you and Suyo's end, and then even more work to find and code better solutions, and Suyo has his own site, his own college work, and his own life dreams to worry about now. I would love to have Blab back, and I had assumed Buff would do a little bit of code for the site. I would love to learn web design if only for the purpose of switching out to the new design you created so long ago, but again, we're all getting increasingly busier.

Even then, SM63 no longer has the audience it does now that it was taken off of NG. I think our saving grace is going for a game on Steam, like I think you said might be possible at one point. I'm thinking Flash is outdated and is the 'noob game programming language' or something. Sucks.

As for bullying new members, I really think it's less of a problem now, but maybe you mean being harsh on a person's first level nowadays. The posts our new level portal gets are sparse, and when I do read them, they do seem to focus on the bad rather than the good or what could be improved.

Those graphs really supported my thoughts that the forums were in a steady decline since 2012, and didn't just drop outright. I can't say the same about the site's overall views. I didn't really know whether or not having the portal separate would induce a less predictable graph trend, but I guess it does.

(Mods, let's not move this to F23 or have our own private discussion about it. I think it's better if we just moderate the thread as it goes, if at all necessary)
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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby ~MP3 Amplifier~ » March 3rd, 2014, 7:44 am

Y'know, this is brilliant. What Runouw has just been saying are thoughts that have been popping in and out of my head ever since user activity went down. I think making a YT account based on LDC results and WITBLO results is a great idea. Not only that, but I'd looooove to do it too. :3 (I've still got the WITBLO videos that I recorded myself)

The joining the forums part sticks out most to me:
  • Can't get past anti-bot measures- is this just the typing test or whatever? Or is it something else? Sometimes I find those things hard to read but nearly every site has them these days.
  • Makes new account from long ago- I don't think we actually permaban anyone who returns now if they've not done anything in the past to disrupt or offend the site. I've issued 2 week bans before to people who've made multiple accounts for no reason, but I think for people who've returned, we should try to get them back on their old account if they ever posted on it and change the password for them so they can get in.
  • Lurks and not interested- well there's not much to do about that, if someone's not interested in the site, they don't have to join.
  • Site's graphics- maybe changing the forum graphics like we discussed before wouldn't be a bad idea for this?
  • Bullying new members- hopefully, I think we sorted this out a little while ago now.
  • Forums are too inactive- from an outsider though, it doesn't look very inactive, or at least not to me. Maybe we should just post more in all the different forums, because sometimes if I look at a site and there hasn't been a post since 4 days or more before in one of the forums like Level Designer etc, it can put me off.

Those are just some of my thoughts.


I know we thought about this a while ago and disagreed on it at the time, but maybe doing a speedrun contest to take place on youtube wouldn't be a bad idea. Not everyone has a screen recorder I know, but it might attract some more people who are interested by it.
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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby Raz » March 3rd, 2014, 12:26 pm

A couple things out of order that I have to say after reading everything:

- Creating a youtube account for making all these videos you guys want probably won't work at all. Not to ruin the optimism or anything but I don't expect many views to come in from the videos, unless the lper is truly engaging, active talker, and funny. Not implying no one can be any of these 3 things on Runouw, but a lot of us are just not that kind of person. Azn is probably the best example of this.
If you guys meant this for like not attracting new members purposes then ignore what I said. (also having really low FPS hurts some people's eyes a lot so really, don't record if you can't have a solid 30-60 fps)

- Moving this to f23 probably would generate little to no discussion considering how the last post in F23 by what you guys have told me was in january.

- I don't really see the bullying much anymore but every now and then I see members being snide to others when they simply ask a question or attempt to act silly like us.
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Re: What can we do to make Runouw the active forum it was?

Postby Asterocrat » March 3rd, 2014, 12:43 pm

Yeah, bullying (or maybe that's too strong, juts the fact that some of you might not have been nice to new users) is nearly gone, at least from what I can see. It was the reason I left for 1 month last year, and now I almost don't see it anymore, which is a nice improvement. The last welcome topic is a nice example of that.
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