runouw.com

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 2:29 pm**

-KT wrote:
WickedOreo wrote:Nin, Chau and the rest of the team are... not really moderators to me. Sure, they have the color change and all, but I have yet to see any action taken by them in any situation that warranted it. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

Sigh. No need to say, that it isn't nice to hear that.

WickedOreo wrote:I have no opinions on the Level Mods because I don't post levels.

Meaning I have no opinion on you.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 2:48 pm**

WickedOreo wrote:
Raz wrote:Maybe Chau, no offense, but definitely not Nin.
Have you not seen his posts?

I don't look into every thread, so no.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 2:58 pm**

MessengerOfDreams wrote:
WickedOreo wrote:
Raz wrote:Maybe Chau, no offense, but definitely not Nin.
Have you not seen his posts?

I don't look into every thread, so no.

I don't need to do my research when the bigger picture is much more apparent. If I wanted to nitpick, then I'd be researching.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 3:00 pm**

So the staff isn't doing their job, but you aren't looking into it to cite evidence they aren't, but that doesn't matter because it isn't the bigger picture...

It's not nitpicking if you show evidence of your claims.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 3:24 pm**

Hey, don't attack. At least phrase your responses into something that at least seems openminded. Counterarguing is fine, but again, tone is important. I don't want this to derail.

I want to see what other staff members think.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 3:24 pm**

The group mentality of this forum had existed even in the early days. I think this is a viable issue to bring up, but not one that's going to immediately find a solution, if ever. However, I'm not necessarily advocating that it should change, either, because I know that this group mentality also encourages members to stick around for a while. (Hence why I and numerous others have been here for well over four years. We were all outsiders to this forum at one point.)

Also, the moderators have always been lazy. I talk from personal experience. Stoneheart, MOY, fourinone, MIC, and the rest of the former staff can adhere to that. It's a tradition, really. Even Suyo, who is understandably quite busy these days, can tell you just what big fat sloths we all here* (including him). It's a pointless argument, sorry. 3:

*Excluding Buffooner, who is obviously a ripped, hairy macho monkey.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 3:32 pm**

Stoneheart wrote:So the staff isn't doing their job, but you aren't looking into it to cite evidence they aren't, but that doesn't matter because it isn't the bigger picture...

It's not nitpicking if you show evidence of your claims.

There is no evidence for such!
In all seriousness, what evidence do I need to prove? It's all around you. This forum is more familiar to you than it is to me.

There have been countless threads calling for change, a neglected bugs/suggestions forum, and yet all there is talk. There have been people wanting a new forum layout or design, change to the Runouw Votes Awards, a cleanout of the forum... What have we done with such ideas? Merely discuss them, and no change has befallen them.

LDCs are not updates or anything, they are only contests brought up by the userbase to have fun and perhaps a bit of competition.

If moderation is being done privately, then I have no evidence towards whether this is true or not, I can only assume it's true, given from a GloMod. We'll assume that it's true.
If such actions are being taken, then it's very small things, or stuff that I wouldn't give a care about, along with other users, most likely. In another community that I'm in, they have admin meetings, where they talk about what is going on, and usually, they are very prompt about solving issues. Their admins are approachable, which is certainly the case here, but the founders of the group frequent the forums and servers they have, making sure everything goes smoothly. They have some issues, but for the most part, they run their site pretty well.
If a forum is to flourish, it must respond to user opinion fairly and make sure everyone is happy, even if it means coming up with a compromise. With new features, rules, and a facelift, the site could attract many more people. If SM64 and LL were optimized for gameplay (such as the engines, showcased, ect.), then the site would be getting slightly more traffic, and people are more than willing to stay, depending on how the userbase is to these newcomers.

When I first joined Runouw, a sizable amount of people welcomed me, but it was pretty much, "Hi, I'm so-and-so! Read the rules and have a nice stay!" I wasn't given much incentive to really stay here, but at the time, my primary focus was on the glaring bugs I had found and made a (now deleted) post finding everything that I could in 3 hours.

Being in the group of people that knows everyone considerably more than me, Shade, you are more likely to not see the bigger picture because you're so used and accepting to what seems right. In reality, it's hurting everyone outside of the group. I don't want to get to know the people inside of this family because, well, frankly, I have no room to speak. Part of that tends to be my social anxiety and awkwardness, but even if I try, I am ignored, passed over, or disregarded. Otherwise, I am pretty much ejected from the conversation (if I know something about it).

Now, I'd appreciate if you stop trying to ignore the main focus on this thread and actually come up with a compelling argument that is slightly more engaging. Thank you.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 3:42 pm**

Heyyyyyy guys, lets put a few things to rest, shall we?

WickedOreo wrote:While the community itself is small and doesn't need a whole lot of moderation (1-2 people as moderators who keep the forums in line and deal with spambots), what we need is a team of, say, 2-3 dedicated people who can help change the site and do internal stuff so that it's more organized.

This is almost exactly what we've got, in my opinion. Suyo is singlehandedly the guy who fixes all the code problems. Buff (I think) helps with that, but his role seems to be a little bit shifted toward offsite events like TF2, or GMod. I'm not all that in the know about those scenarios, though. Amp, on the other hand, is the sortof bridge between the somewhat unapproachable Suyo and Buff. We know and love her- many members would feel more comfortable asking Amp about a site thing than trying to reach one of the other GloMos.

Then there's our mods, Chau and Nin. Both are sociable, open, and are able to see both sides of a disagreement. Nin would probably make a more adaptable leader (as Raz pointed out, his posts show that very well- the Survivor fallout is a recent example of this) while Chau is likely more... experienced. He's very open and honest when the situation calls for it, and can argue both sides of virtually any debate.

That seems very close to your ideal, with Suyo/Buff/Amp handling the day to day events of Runouw (be it on site or off) and Nin/Chau making sure things don't get out of hand (usually in chat, because that's where all the activity is).

Secondly, opinions are great. The problem with them is that other people have opinions too. Debating them is fine, obviously, but it's generally considered a cheap move to make an assertion and then claim ignorance to the contrary evidence- at least check it out. If your view changes, we're all on the same boat, crisis averted. If not, you have more material to work with and a stronger argument, a more complete opinion- which brings up the flip side.

Opinions aren't wrong. They can be misinformed, certainly, if they're created without all the necessary information, but that doesn't make them wrong. Everyone here seems to be jumping on Oreo for her opinion, when she's really just trying to make all this stuff visible. We all care about Runouw, don't we? These things need to be brought up if so, in order to make the proper changes- it wouldn't really do to alienate the people who are experiencing the cold and unwelcoming side of our community firsthand.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 4:36 pm**

Just pasting stuff I've said about the matter so everyone can see them.

[14:23:01] <brandobrawl> Okay this is what I was saying. The site, as a whole, with all its users, grew up, but the amount of users didn't grow with it. In the early days of the site, there were veterans, who would get along with each other and already formed a new group dynamic, and a stream of new users, who'd form a dynamic of their own. They then became a part of the veteran dynamic. NOW, currently, if there's a new users, there's not a stream of new users at all for them to fit into and grow a dynamic with. All they're left with is the grumpy old users whose dynamic they're comfortable with and feel disrupted when the new user tries to be a part of it.
[14:24:03] <brandobrawl> That. Is what I think is the problem.
[14:25:50] <brandobrawl> I think it's just a matter of the new users putting some effort in themselves.
[14:26:13] <brandobrawl> You know Cap (CaptainYoshi)? He isn't really a new user, but he was gone for quite a while so he technically kinda is.
[14:26:52] <brandobrawl> It was only recently that I got to know him, and while his behavior is still kinda sorta a bit in its noob phase, I had no trouble getting along with him.
[14:27:15] <brandobrawl> Because he actively participated in conversations and events he'd normally have no business in, and acted as if he fit right in.
[14:27:19] <brandobrawl> And I like him for that.
[14:27:25] <brandobrawl> He's cool in my book.

There's nothing wrong with wanting your opinion be heard. It's a form of self fulfillment and people will always do it. Problem is, other people will want to do the same, and no one ever has the exact same view of a certain matter. The thing is, nobody is ever going to be able to get along with everybody. You're going to have preferences, and I have preferences of my own, of people who you like to get along with. So like with [X User], if you know you're not going to get along with him, you don't have to force yourself to. That expands to well, everybody. Oreo should realize that she's not going to ever get along with everyone on the site. It's just not possible. But that doesn't mean people can't get along with ANYBODY. The site isn't just one big hivemind, and shouldn't be seen as such.

As for the changes to the site, a lot of people are always going to subconsciously see the site as just a site, on the internet, and give it less importance than what it actually is: a conjunction of real people with real feelings, all of which vary wildly. So they might not feel very motivated to actually get up and actually change something. Even so, the staff dedicates time out of their own everyday lives, time which they may or may not have, to keeping the community in check. In a community like this that is run by members of the community itself, that's more than good enough.

For that previous matter, other people have summed it up pretty well, and I don't think Oreo's "rebuttal" is very valid, no offense. But ignoring reasonable, factual points people brought up isn't a good rebuttal at all.

Lastly, I want to address this.

Oreo wrote:If a forum is to flourish, it must respond to user opinion fairly and make sure everyone is happy, even if it means coming up with a compromise. With new features, rules, and a facelift, the site could attract many more people. If SM64 and LL were optimized for gameplay (such as the engines, showcased, ect.), then the site would be getting slightly more traffic, and people are more than willing to stay, depending on how the userbase is to these newcomers.

When I first joined Runouw, a sizable amount of people welcomed me, but it was pretty much, "Hi, I'm so-and-so! Read the rules and have a nice stay!" I wasn't given much incentive to really stay here, but at the time, my primary focus was on the glaring bugs I had found and made a (now deleted) post finding everything that I could in 3 hours.

"Make sure everyone is happy"? "I wasn't given much incentive to really stay here"? This is a community that was built around Runouw's flash games, first and foremost, and flourished by its tightly knit community of ragtag teenagers, to splice together some things people have said about the site. Now you're being downright unreasonable if you really feel that we have the obligation to "sell" the site to you, by appealing to what tailor-made idea you have of the site you want. Yes, we could be making efforts to promote the site because it has in fact stopped attracting new users, but as you've been made aware, there are already efforts being made to publicize the site in bring in more of a userbase. And even then, it'll be the users who decide if they want to be a part of all of this, just like every single user who became active on this site did.

Building upon that, that's really what all of this is. Progress can be made for the better, yes, and it will be, I'm sure of it. But we don't need to "change" at all, that's only your personal feelings. That's not what communities are. You are never going to find a community that is tailor made for you, because communities are conjunctions of wildly different people with wildly different opinions. But by making some effort, you can fit in, find your place in it, and enjoy the people who are in it for who they are.

Posted: **April 6th, 2014, 5:08 pm**

In a way, I... don't agree TOO much is us being that close knit. At least in the experience I've had with the forums myself.

While we do tend to get along, there's still... groups that form. For example, I tend to talk more to people who hang around the Forum Games, specifically the RPGs. And some kind of group formed there. I also got friends from that one... story I wrote once... and I dunno. Sometimes I do talk to ones likes Raz, brando, and all those who seem to be like the "popular" people here. But they're just people I know, I guess. My group of friends is kinda small compared to the people I know in these forums.

Of course, one tends to make friends based on similar interests, so I guess it makes sense. At least on my end. But there do seem to be people who are more into Gaming, the Artists, the guys who do Serious Discussion (Doram seems to only exist for that xD), and all the anime fans... And at least from where I see it, these people seem to talk more to those with similar interests.

I never talk to Azn unless it's a Humble Bundle raffle or he's somehow in the same topic as I am. Same with Raz. Same with brando. Same with Nwolf, even when we once worked together as LeMods. Although that might just be my fault.

As for me, I don't mind new people (I've actually sorta gotten new people recently...), but I know what you mean when you said it's hard to like, enter. To get into a group.

You do art, I believe. There's a few artist people around here. That's a common interest.

I dunno...

I can actually become friends with you if you want. I'm actually sorta looking forward to that. You seem like quite an interesting person. ^_^ We could talk about drawing and whatnot. I have a Deviant Art you can look at if you want... you can tell me how terrible my drawings are... xD I dunno. Maybe we can talk games, you like games? Or something.

...So yeah... I dunno what else to say.

About the way I see the forum, it wouldn't surprise me if I was the only one who saw the forums the way I do. I tend to have a different point of view on things. For good or for bad... :/

I would like us all to be friends though, I guess.

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