Staff Suggestions

[Supershroom]

12:47:50 PM <Shroom> last chat session yesterday evening was frustrating
12:47:57 PM <bowser07> hey oj
12:48:00 PM <Shroom> thanks to OJ and FF
12:48:04 PM <@OJ|Phone> Hey
12:48:18 PM <bowser07> what did they do? was it constant arguing or something.
12:48:20 PM <@OJ|Phone> Oh
12:48:22 PM <Shroom> well, it takes a lot to make me quit for safety reasons
12:48:22 PM <@OJ|Phone> Okay
12:48:35 PM ← OJ|Phone has quit (Quit:)
12:49:15 PM <bowser07> wait was this while I was here or afterward
12:49:46 PM <Shroom> afterwards
12:49:48 PM <Shroom> german evening
12:50:08 PM <Shroom> and it was the ♥♥♥♥ lemon discussion again, which I didn't even intend to start
12:50:38 PM <Shroom> I just mentioned me thinking of Raz having an unprogressive mindset, and OJ started "it's not like he's against promotions"
12:51:01 PM <bowser07> shame. I didn't think it would ever get to that point
12:51:10 PM <bowser07> thats just mean
12:51:34 PM <Shroom> I just don't understand why do I have to hang in suspension for so long
12:52:55 PM <bowser07> wait, did he say promotions or recruiting new members
12:53:21 PM <Shroom> promotion = staff selecting someone to be lemod
12:53:33 PM <Shroom> recruting = members applying for lemod, staff picking afterwards
12:53:48 PM <bowser07> I think I see your problem
12:54:03 PM <Shroom> members can also apply for a position via UCP, but this is not really taken care of
12:54:10 PM <Shroom> and my application is over 1/2 year old
12:54:16 PM <bowser07> you're trying to go straight for lemod.
12:54:28 PM <bowser07> that is very unlikely to work.
12:55:24 PM <bowser07> wait, thats what you are trying to do right?
12:55:28 PM <Shroom> well, they told me to be patient but I'm patient for, like, already 3 weeks
12:55:41 PM <Shroom> and I can't view F41 where they might be talking and such
12:55:51 PM → lordpat has joined
12:55:58 PM <lordpat> hello guys
12:56:00 PM <lordpat> how are you?
12:56:01 PM → OJ|Phone has joined
12:56:02 PM <bowser07> hello
12:56:04 PM <Shroom> hello
12:56:11 PM <bowser07> not very well again
12:56:16 PM <Shroom> my forum-me is also not so well
12:56:29 PM <Shroom> FF and OJ can be really brazen
12:57:17 PM <@OJ|Phone> Cool so I see you're now going to start attacking me when I enter the chat
12:57:18 PM <@OJ|Phone> Nice
12:57:25 PM <bowser07> shroom you need to go for user rep first. Think of it as a test to see if you are capable of the more important jobs
12:57:26 PM <lordpat> brazen?
12:57:34 PM <lordpat> yo OJ
12:57:37 PM <@OJ|Phone> After attacking raz yesterday for literally no reason
12:57:38 PM <lordpat> how did you sleep?
12:57:39 PM <@OJ|Phone> Hey pat
12:57:43 PM <@OJ|Phone> Eh, alright
12:57:47 PM <bowser07> I know you are capable, but they don't
12:58:04 PM <Shroom> you've got the core of the problem
12:58:36 PM <bowser07> and no I'm not going to start attacking you.
12:58:50 PM <@OJ|Phone Not you, bowser
1:00:00 PM <Shroom> OJ, normally I'm willing to hold discussions to the very end, but that literally made no sense yesterday
1:00:00 PM → Bryce has joined
1:00:10 PM <bowser07> hello
1:00:20 PM <bowser07> you just came at the worst possible time
1:00:28 PM <@OJ|Phone> Nah
1:00:30 PM <lordpat> shroom, OJ is very tired, and probably doesn't want to discuss right now
1:00:31 PM <lordpat> can you leave it for later?
1:00:50 PM <Shroom> well, I rather want him to apologize than a discussion
1:00:55 PM <@OJ|Phone> No, don't leave it for later
1:00:58 PM <@OJ|Phone> Oh
1:01:00 PM <lordpat> oh that is good then
1:01:02 PM <@OJ|Phone> You want me
1:01:06 PM <@OJ|Phone> You want me to apologize
1:01:09 PM <@OJ|Phone> Me
1:01:11 PM <bowser07> here we go again -_-
1:01:12 PM <lordpat> oooooooooh
1:01:13 PM <lordpat> MAN
1:01:13 PM <lordpat> SORRY
1:01:17 PM <@OJ|Phone> Jesus ♥♥♥♥ christ shroom
1:01:18 PM <lordpat> I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO APOLOGIZE
1:01:44 PM <@OJ|Phone> ?
1:01:49 PM <bowser07> if anyone needs me I'll be at my bar that nobody comes to anymore.
1:02:15 PM <@OJ|Phone> No I'm just ♥♥♥♥ sick of your ♥♥♥♥ complaining about not being promoted to lemon
1:02:34 PM <@OJ|Phone> Because you're not being promoted to lemon especially after yesterday's events
1:02:41 PM <Shroom> do you know that it sucks staying in suspension
1:02:42 PM <@OJ|Phone> Sorry for blowing up just now
1:03:15 PM <Shroom> and if that is a decision criterion instead of overall activities for the LDP, then honestly something is going wrong
1:03:17 PM <@OJ|Phone> But at this point it's not worth pretending there's any chance anymore
1:04:15 PM <@OJ|Phone> Not really, we can't just leave out your behaviour entirely
1:04:36 PM <@OJ|Phone> And then after personally attacking raz, and now me and FF, that's just uncalled for
1:04:52 PM <@OJ|Phone> I don't really care about you doing it to me
1:05:13 PM <Shroom> now I'm close to post about the issue in Site Discussion
1:05:16 PM <@OJ|Phone> But there's no reason to do that to the others
1:05:28 PM <@OJ|Phone> What issue?
1:06:08 PM <@OJ|Phone> Like holy ♥♥♥♥ I don't care if you're mad at me and want me demoted because I told you that the official decision of the staff is that we're not going to consider you for promotion anymore
1:06:15 PM <Shroom> ... of your destructive manners and refusal to have a discussion on a reasonable level
1:06:26 PM <Shroom> also literally I didn't say anything about anyone to be demoted
1:06:38 PM <Shroom> and maybe THAT could be the reason for my "attacks"
1:06:41 PM <Shroom> actio - reactio
1:07:14 PM <@OJ|Phone> I still don't get why you're trying to spin this on me
1:07:29 PM <@OJ|Phone> Like, yeah, I've been getting a little pissed about it lately
1:07:36 PM <Shroom> not only lately
1:07:46 PM <@OJ|Phone> But only because you've been constantly complaining about it for weeks now
1:07:55 PM <Shroom> not constantly
1:08:08 PM <@OJ|Phone> exaggeration yo
1:08:37 PM <Shroom> 1:08:39 PM <Shroom> and it was the ♥♥♥♥ lemon discussion again, which I didn't even intend to start
1:08:55 PM <@OJ|Phone> Then why do you keep bringing it up every day
1:09:32 PM <@OJ|Phone> There was like, a single day when I saw something that looked like it was going to wind up in the lemon discussion again, and I warned you not to start it
1:09:56 PM <Shroom> why the ♥♥♥♥ do you even forbid me to talk about it
1:10:00 PM <@OJ|Phone> Yeah, we've pretty much all changed our not long minds at this point
1:10:18 PM <@OJ|Phone> That's as simply as I can put it
1:11:17 PM <@OJ|Phone> I'm not forbidding you from talking about it, I'm just suggesting that talking about it like you do all the time on chat is not going to help your case
1:11:24 PM <bowser07> im back. you lot done yet?
1:11:31 PM <@OJ|Phone> I wish lol
1:12:24 PM <bowser07> k. I'm gonna go see if someone has had their turn on runouwheel of fortune.
[… unrelevant stuff]
1:18:02 PM <Shroom> anyways, my explanation on the issue:
1:18:37 PM <Shroom> 1) on one side I'd like to see a new lemod or two so FF doesn't have all work
1:19:00 PM <Shroom> 2) on the other side there are lots of OBJECTIVE facts saying that it has to be me
1:19:14 PM <Bryce> It doesn't "have" to be anyone
1:20:03 PM <Shroom> but portal activity and supporting new designers IS a selection criterion
1:20:17 PM <Bryce> There are plently of members who would be good fits as a staff member
1:20:31 PM <Shroom> for the lemon position in particular?
1:20:43 PM <Bryce> And I personally feel more comfortable with someone a bit more chilled out being promoted
1:21:09 PM <Bryce> I know you'd be dedicated and really care about LDing
1:21:11 PM <Shroom> I could be but you guys have driven me into that situation with harsh, unfriendly words
1:21:28 PM <Shroom> and honestly I wish I could be chilled
1:21:47 PM <Shroom> instead of fearing about having ruined everything without an objective fault
1:22:52 PM <Bryce> I can tell you're probably a nice person, but you always feel to me to be a bit tense when it comes to any conflict about LDing
1:23:23 PM <Shroom> well, I admit I have a tendency on fighting for justice
1:23:36 PM <Shroom> and against injustice
1:24:44 PM <Bryce> Everybody thinks they're working for the right reason
1:24:54 PM <bowser07> I can see that this will not end anytime soon.
1:24:58 PM <bowser07> *grabs popcorn*
1:25:08 PM <lordpat> oh, fancy, that is from plato, right Bammy?
1:25:13 PM <lordpat> now I want to look it up
1:25:18 PM <Bryce> i dunno
1:25:28 PM <Shroom> well, bowser, leading discussions to the end is better than stopping it with everyone being angry of each other
1:25:53 PM <Shroom> and yesterday I was forced to pull the emergency brakes
1:26:31 PM <@OJ|Phone> You know, shroom
1:26:50 PM <bowser07> shroom, you do realize that the more you open your mouth, the longer it will take for you to actually get promoted if at all
1:26:55 PM <@OJ|Phone> I've tried to make your case several times in the staff chat, arguing FOR you as a potential promotion
1:27:07 PM <Shroom> then why didn't you tell that earlier
1:27:12 PM <@OJ|Phone> I did
1:27:20 PM <Shroom> I literally can't recall
1:27:22 PM <@OJ|Phone> I said we've considered you
1:27:39 PM <@OJ|Phone> We've discussed it, you're a good candidate on the portal/level side of things
1:27:44 PM <Shroom> seems like a huge misunderstanding on both sides
1:28:08 PM <@OJ|Phone> It's my job, I'm a site rep, I represent the opinions of the users and he staff
1:28:14 PM <bowser07> I think we could make this into a movie. The discussion was long enough for it.
1:28:57 PM <Shroom> also you know, having no powers and depending on other people's willingness is something which can cause inpatience and eagerness and all that
1:29:37 PM <Shroom> but having powers and being close to the scene is a different situation
1:29:39 PM <@OJ|Phone> But ultimately, all of those things we discussed about you being a good candidate were overturned, somewhere around yesterday, because we've been paying attention to your recent behaviour and have overall decided that even though you're great on the level side of things, we really just can't promote you to any moderator position
1:30:03 PM <@OJ|Phone> Because of your behaviour
1:30:24 PM <Shroom> maybe you have to explain my behaviour from me NOT KNOWING WHAT HAPPENS IN F41
1:30:41 PM <@OJ|Phone> It's not irrational to consider that, because we have to think about how interactions with users would go
1:30:41 PM <Shroom> BECAUSE MEMBERS AREN'T ALLOWED TO EVEN READ IT
1:30:42 PM <Bryce> People have
1:31:14 PM <bowser07> shroom, you are offending OJ because you are basically telling him that he isn't doing his job right.
1:31:21 PM <bowser07> I shouldn't have to say that.
1:31:29 PM <Bryce> I can say for certain that multiple people have made posts directed towards you, Shroom
1:31:32 PM <@OJ|Phone> Shroom, there's like maybe two or three threads posted in the lemon forum and the staff forum in a single year lol
1:31:52 PM <@OJ|Phone> We talk about potential promotions sometimes
1:31:55 PM <Shroom> and one of them is the discussion on promotions, isn't it
1:32:12 PM <Shroom> and if I could read that ♥♥♥♥, my behaviour would be SOMEWHAT different
1:32:14 PM <@OJ|Phone> I dunno, I can check
1:32:51 PM <@OJ|Phone> Honestly, most of the stuff goes on in the staff chat though
1:33:03 PM <Shroom> then the problem is that I can't be on the staff chat
1:33:07 PM <Shroom> same thing
1:33:11 PM <@OJ|Phone> Anyway, I've already gone on longer than I wanted to
1:33:34 PM <@OJ|Phone> I meant to stop after my message at 6:29:40
1:33:40 PM <Shroom> well, if I can't explain the problem to you, I'll do it in Site Discussion

Urgh. It's not good that it had to come this far. The bolded lines basically explain my point of view, concretely: being the first one to be confronted with accusations of misbehaviour and harsh words, and being in a difficult situation because I can't view neither F41 or the staff chat and therefore have to rely on vague hints for several weeks, and also OJ, Raz and others not seeing things properly from my perspective thus far. And staying in suspension for weeks pretty much feels the same like a new designer waiting for his first levels to be approved. On the other site, I'm also starting to realize that my behaviour has backfired in the way of impeding the staff discussion rather than accelerating it. Apologies for thinking of Raz as anti-progressive. But harsh words and derogatory fobbing off against me is absolutely useless either, and honestly it's ridiculous to let this degenerate into a sort of "trial of strength" or "crucual test" wutever.

I'm making something absolutely clear here. It's not too late for us to reconcile this, assuming we put down any personal resentments, but: If you take someone out of your aspirants list ONLY because of a misunderstanding and a conflict with harsh words on BOTH sides, you're really doing it wrong and I consider it as a fraud. I'm recalling it again:

DO YOU HAVE WHAT YOU NEED?

• visiting the forums almost daily
• being remotely active
• friendly
• experience with level making
• knowledge of level rules
• the will to look into every level needing to be approved
• ability to deal with level reports

Please, please, mainly focus on these things when making your decision. And if you really go that far to take behaviour stuff into account, imagine the aspirant's behaviour under the assumption that they would already be staff.

And last but not least:

We have higher ups to watch over him for a reason.

And my personal challenge would be not to need those higher ups to watch over me.

Thank you.

[Oranjui]

You missed one last message
06:34:04 <@OJ|Phone> Because that's pretty much all I have to say to you anymore, and it's the last time I'm going to say it

[Doram]

This post by Doram was thumbed up by: 3

l.m (September 22nd, 2015, 7:04 am) • Oranjui (September 22nd, 2015, 6:57 am) • Supershroom (February 10th, 2016, 12:13 am)

[Oranjui]

also more chat logs courtesy of someone http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=u1sV35ri

anyway thank you doram

[~MP3 Amplifier~]

This post by ~MP3 Amplifier~ was thumbed up by: 3

Harmless (September 28th, 2015, 3:35 pm) • Oranjui (September 22nd, 2015, 6:57 am) • Supershroom (February 10th, 2016, 12:13 am)

[Supershroom]

Now. As a result of this, we do promote people with a completely different process than anywhere else on the internet, and that includes pretty much ignoring all requests for staff positions through the regular bulletin board software, and simply watching the community closely, and keeping an eye out for people who we believe have the right qualities, and then we approach them. It is not the regular way of things for people to campaign for a position, and it is a rare thing indeed for anyone to have any success in that direction.

Another information which was unavailable for me until now. I can only rely on stuff I've read on the site, and most of that being from the past, where there were recruitment topics and such, and where people were sometimes rewarded with a promotion for their achievements without worrying about having "too many" staff members. I remember the story of "MessengerOfDreams starts a frantic campaign to become a moderator" in the timeline and I remember the story of SK, and I remember the time where there were 16 staff members in total instead of 11. And as you mention the Anti-MoD drama, that always made the impression to me of being the fault of a certain users hating him in general, and acting out their hate in a very paltry matter, so paltry that bans had to be given out. Generally, it needs two sides to start a conflict, and I usually just wanna go for a discussion on a reasonable level, and others blow it up to a flame war because they feel personally attacked for some reason.

But Amp and I, especially, among others, are worried about your ability to hold your temper when faced with problem users, as well as being too critical of the users on the portal, most of which are both very young, and also not active enough in the rest of the community to receive support they deserve in expressing their creativity. The portal is a delicate place, full of a lot of kids that are expressing themselves creatively, sometimes for the first time, and sometimes in opposition to other influences in their life, and emotions are always running high. Even when a designer is more experienced, a bad review or low rating can be a crushing blow. More than in many other places in the site, the portal needs a loving, compassionate, and patient hand. It needs nurturing, not culling. THAT is what we are looking for that we have not seen fully from you just yet.

Again, it's the situation of me being forced to rely on other people's mindsets when dealing with people like ovidiu. Generally, I'm being fully objective when giving reviews, may it be a new user or superveteran (though I also tend to give one star more in doubt for a newer user). And now it's their choice on what they do with it. I'm not sure if FluorescenceLight would be as good as he is now if I didn't give him advices on small but essential subtleties. And if a user like InvalidSega quits the site because he can't bear us saying he has made a poor level when he really has made a poor level, then it's a problem of their attitude and not ours. Also Doram, creativity always has a little bit to do with quality. A spam level is never creative.

And MP3, of course decisions don't happen overnight, but a week consists of seven days and nights, and one or two weeks is where I've honestly expected a decision to come, and where I've started thinking you guys are making it yourselves more difficult than necessary (NOTICE: without having the information above). I admit, I have lost faith too early.

Now, we are NOT going to let that knock you off the list out of petty revenge, when you DO have plenty of other qualities that we are interested in, but we WILL hold off on the decision until we see a bit more maturity settle in.

Ty, this is a standpoint I can consider as more-or-less final instead of the previous to-and-fro.

[*Emelia K. Fletcher]

you could've always just politely inquired with the staff on the topic of staff recruting, since we are in fact here to be talked to

[Doram]

This post by Doram was thumbed up by:

Oranjui (September 22nd, 2015, 8:48 am)

[nin10mode]

This post by nin10mode was thumbed up by:

Oranjui (September 22nd, 2015, 12:30 pm)

[Kimonio]

Hi, I'm going to butt in even though I've been out of the scene for who knows how long.

when dealing with people like ovidiu

This.

This right here.

Look at this.

Do you see what this is?

Let me explain. Imagine you are a cop. Imagine you have an unruly individual. Now imagine this individual is a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and attempts to piss you off every day. One day, he successfully does this, and you bash his head in, put him in the hospital, and now you are discharged and possibly being sued. Whose fault is it?

It's both the cop and the civilian. This is finger-pointing, and as it is rude in public, it is a disgusting trait to have as a staff member. You are held responsible for every action, not the user. You. If you fly off the handle one day, it is your own fault for not stepping away and being mature.

When you are a staff member, everyone is looking up at you. You are the parental figure to some, the leader to others, and the overall governing factor. Understand?

Furthermore, you keep referring to Suyo's post, and that ♥♥♥♥ is heavily outdated. Hell, a lot of those qualities do not even matter anymore, or are to be more lenient.

Try to remember one thing, at least....have you ever heard that if you keep asking for a position online, you're less likely to get it? This applies here. Instead of pushing and persisting, when there are no openings, just apply, be patient, sit back, pop a soda, and relax. If they want you on the team, they'll add you to the team. If not, then not.

Granted, you are very persistent, a great debater, and you have a good heart. Just try to relax.