runouw.com

Rarely has a Subject/Subtitle combination of mine contained this much characters. Yet it's probably the most easy way to adress the people who're actually fighting over stuff, I'm both not involved with, nor interested in. Furthermore am I honestly not really keeping track of these things either.

But let me set a few things straight for everyone who feels the need to go against moderators, without ever questioning the own standpoint.

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First off. Telling several moderators that they're not doing their job right is both a difficult and risky thing to do. If they do their work wrong there are normally more and more people starting to notice that. Once they do, voices will cry out for injustice. This and only this is a true sign that stuff is going down. However. I didn't notice anything like this happening recently. Which leads me to the point that there are people who hit a wall at some point.

Don't be stubborn and keep blaming others. Go for an open discussion. Rethink your own point too and let the discussion rest if it's leading nowhere.

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If another user is doing stuff you wouldn't do yourself or don't approve of. Then hell. Ignore it if there's no bad intention coming from it. There are new users on this site who are clumsy, immature, etc. But hey that's fine. And they will all grow up and learn to behave more appropiate to their surroundings. And the majority, probably even everyone can think back to his very own first steps in the web. How clumsy they were, especially if taken at a young age.

Accept everyone around you as who they are. Everyone is an individual. Live and let live. So don't force your opinion on others.

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If you want others to be immediately punished for everything, that's not following the rules then you're clearly an idiot from my personal point of view. Rules shall give people a direction. Show them what's right and wrong. They're not here to be feared, because not following them would always result in punishment.

Rules exist for the sake of keeping things comfortable for everyone.

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Don't tell people that they're doing their job wrong or neglect things, if you don't even know what they are actually doing. The staff consists of normal people sacrificing their spare time for making this place here a better one for everyone. Every action, even the smallest one, which shall make things better for others, is an honourable one. Don't waste your energy on putting others down, but start to use this energy to do something good yourself.

Everyone is doing their part. Try to understand rather than criticizing it.

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If you're suiting for a staff position is a decision which is nothing you decide by yourself. Honestly. It's something which just happens, when people around you trust you and acknowledge you and your doings as what they are. It's never about single aspects. It's the whole thing which counts.

Don't get lost in your own sorrow and anger to the point you start attacking other people. People would think you are a bad person for behaving like this.

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Last but not least something personal. Don't try to drag me on your side for arguments. In fact don't do this to anyone. This is something you have to deal with yourself. Keep it away from others BY all means. Everyone who does even remotely think that I'm talking to them should read all of this careful.

Moderators may move this thing all over the place if there's a spot it's fitting better into.
So yeah. If you'd excuse me. I do need to meet a dear person then.

Very well said. Have I just missed an argument between members and staff or did you just feel like this needed to be said?

-BY wrote:Last but not least something personal. Don't try to drag me on your side for arguments. In fact don't do this to anyone. This is something you have to deal with yourself. Keep it away from others BY all means. Everyone who does even remotely think that I'm talking to them should read all of this careful.

I'm not trying to rope you in for selfish interests or dirty machinations at all. I've PM'd you first instead of posting directly because I wanted to avoid under all circumstances to say something problematic. It's not nice to live with restricted freedom of opinion and having to check every word with the utmost meticulousness. Should have made this clearer to you. Also I won't be on chat because I give myself a break of at least a day for reasons. Yes, there are problems and there's a quite simple solution but I'm not allowed to say it in public.

-BY wrote:If you want others to be immediately punished for everything, that's not following the rules then you're clearly an idiot from my personal point of view. Rules shall give people a direction. Show them what's right and wrong. They're not here to be feared, because not following them would always result in punishment.

I've made clear enough that I've changed my mindset so no worries about that.

Also if you use the word "attack" for just saying that they are problems on how they're doing their stuff. Please no.

Shroom, consider re-reading the post (particularly the following quoted points), and then think about your own post. Though I don't want to make any accusations, it almost seems like you've completely disregarded several of the things BY was trying to say.

-BY wrote:But let me set a few things straight for everyone who feels the need to go against moderators, without ever questioning their own standpoint.

-BY wrote:First off. Telling several moderators that they're not doing their job right is both a difficult and risky thing to do. If they do their work wrong there are normally more and more people starting to notice that. Once they do, voices will cry out for injustice. This and only this is a true sign that stuff is going down. However. I didn't notice anything like this happening recently. Which leads me to the point that there are people who hit a wall at some point.

Don't be stubborn and keep blaming others. Go for an open discussion. Rethink your own point too and let the discussion rest if it's leading nowhere.

-BY wrote:Don't tell people that they're doing their job wrong or neglect things, if you don't even know what they are actually doing. The staff consists of normal people sacrificing their spare time for making this place here a better one for everyone. Every action, even the smallest one, which shall make things better for others, is an honourable one. Don't waste your energy on putting others down, but start to use this energy to do something good yourself.

Everyone is doing their part. Try to understand rather than criticizing it.

-BY wrote:Last but not least something personal. Don't try to drag me on your side for arguments. In fact don't do this to anyone. This is something you have to deal with yourself. Keep it away from others BY all means. Everyone who does even remotely think that I'm talking to them should read all of this careful.

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Anyway. I would just like to say thank you for posting this, for not only the benefit of the users but also the staff. It was refreshing to read and kind of opened my eyes to my own behaviour a bit; I realize I've been reacting a little bit rashly to a few certain things as of late, so I'll try to be more considerate myself, too. Really well-written and I'm glad you spoke up. Thank you again.

Quoted Shroom's original post here for reasons:

Supershroom wrote:

-BY wrote:Last but not least something personal. Don't try to drag me on your side for arguments. In fact don't do this to anyone. This is something you have to deal with yourself. Keep it away from others BY all means. Everyone who does even remotely think that I'm talking to them should read all of this careful.

I'm not trying to rope you in for selfish interests or dirty machinations at all. I've PM'd you first instead of posting directly because I wanted to avoid under all circumstances to say something problematic. It's not nice to live with restricted freedom of opinion and having to check every word with the utmost meticulousness. Should have made this clearer to you. Also I won't be on chat because I give myself a break of at least a day for reasons. Yes, there are problems and there's a quite simple solution but I'm not allowed to say it in public.

-BY wrote:If you want others to be immediately punished for everything, that's not following the rules then you're clearly an idiot from my personal point of view. Rules shall give people a direction. Show them what's right and wrong. They're not here to be feared, because not following them would always result in punishment.

I've made clear enough that I've changed my mindset so no worries about that.

Also if you use the word "attack" for just saying that they are problems on how they're doing their stuff. Please no. :o_O:

This is me verbally thumbs-upping BY's post because Raz told me I'm not allowed to thumb-up anymore

Alright, no hiding anymore and expressing the content of the PM (not 1:1).

The staff team in general loosens the reins and therefore considers me as too strict, which is not the case. This keeps sparking discussions on the forums and on chat and -OJ and Raz stood out negatively due to reacting harshly and aggressively.

There are problem users and the team's duty should be keeping the forums clean from any sort of fooling. But on principle topics are (almost) always locked, not deleted, and the thing keeps existing, clearly visible and for all times. Especially if a normal user replies instead of reporting. There are too few reports and mine are not handled properly. But if it's suddenly about me, they're becoming incredibly carping. Symptomatical is the first reaction to my wiki project: An immediate "you should not write this in the wiki" instead of first visualising the overall effort I've put into this.

This is also the reason for me pushing recently to become lemod, not only due to the (former) Yuri / Sk absence. It's because it needs real dudes who enforce rules consequently and analogously, who keep a certain standard propriety on the forums, but also give a chance to new users to understand the rules, and not warn them too early, yet shows them that they're responsible for their behaviour. And according to this, deleting is simply far more effective than locking.

Generally it seems like the staff hardly brings anything about on improving the condition of the forums. Almost two months have happened since I've posted this, and although people agreed on the subject, nothing has really changed.

Some people doubt on my temper or my level of criticism whatever, all of which I feel it's unreasoned, and I don't have any idea of what should I do more to become lemod, and it almost feels like I'm simply unwanted. And also:

Doram in Staff suggestions wrote:but the last time we did that, we also experienced the entire forums being dragged through some pretty serious drama with the Anti-MoD group and all, and it was a difficult time for him to be able to use the power we gave him without resistance from the community, and friction that was technically not fair to HIM. We don't want to do that to the community, and we don't want to do that to YOU.

really not relevant - first, this was in 2010, with the community being miles away from what it is today, and secondly, I've met so much unfair stuff already since I've joined, and was confronted for over a year with a mild form of an "Anti-Shroom-group", therefore I can take care of myself and with my interaction with users.

And yes, I honestly disagree with a lot of what -BY said, because these are problems of fundamental nature and more than a thing of "everyone does what they're doing". I don't need others to have the same strong feelings for the community as I have. I even find contradictions, such as if rules really shall make it comfortable for everyone, it does include cleaning up all spam and trash topics.

Do we really have to go over this again

Karyete wrote:Very well said. Have I just missed an argument between members and staff or did you just feel like this needed to be said?

Well, seems I haven't missed anything, because it's the same bloody argument cropping up again.

I've said this before, but I honestly don't think rules are too big of a deal when it comes to most sections of the forms. The majority of active users, especially the ones who frequent the IRC, know each other pretty well, so we all give each other a bit of leeway. I can say for certain for certain that I've seen plenty of rules broken but because they didn't actually cause a negative impact on anyone, nobody cared.

It feels like you are trying way too hard to "make the site a better place", to the point where even the users itselves are annoyed with your attitude