Talk with FrozenFire: show
<FrozenFire> Shroom.
What was that about people in the staff being unconcerned and close-hearted
Also
Why do you think I'd have a strained relationship with you
Please answer me.
<Shroom> Well, if you insist. There was just quite often some lashing out I've experienced from you and others. Especially on January 12th (Problem: Raz being rude about my suggestions) and ... 24th, I guess? (Problem: Staff not seeming to care about spamming comments on LDP, also caused by my outburst of being frustrated with reports being unsuccessful).
And maybe "unconcerned" doesn't fit entirely but there are often so many gaps where the problems lie on the open street ... and why? Because not enough people are in positions of power, and if some of them are missing due to being busy or other issues, we end up in stagnancy. Two mods, two lemods, that's not stable in the long run.
<FrozenFire> Alright. First off, I want you to know that we're not disallowing you to express yourself or anything. If you indeed have something bothering you, then you should contact that with the person you have problems with.
Don't just keep venting your problems to Doram or to Ven.
Other staff may seem rude or blunt in the chat, but that's because the heated discussions usually start there. And they can't help themselves but to correct what's wrong. It's the staff job, isn't it?
However, if you just PM with someone and make your point respectful, the person will be respectful with you, believe you or not. And that doesn't happen only with staff.
About your frustrations with Raz (and maybe other people). If you want to tell him that you got offended because you were called nitpicky, that's fine. But think about it for a second. We were working a lot on the back on the staff chat, and we really wanted to get things done and the forums organized for once.
<Shroom> Hm ... good point, but you know what they say, once burnt, twice shy. But actually, for me it seems like nothing is going on for multiple days or even weeks, the FAQ topic exists for almost 4 months now.
<FrozenFire> But when we did the topic about it asking about opinions, you just came there and wrote an enormous reply saying that there was a lot of stuff missing out on there. It may not be anything to you, but it's disappointing to know you don't take the suggestions we made in consideration.
The point I'm trying to reach is: Whether you consider anyone blatantly wrong or anything, express it as an opinion, and not as the ultimate truth.
You may not even sound like you're not trying to correct the staff, but it's hard to know that when you're not on the receiving end.
So, well, it ended up like it should. You stated something you thought was true. Raz also stated something he thought was true.
And, about the unconcerned staff thing. In mine's and the entire staff's defense, if there is something we really care about, we do it. And normal users always act as a catalyst. We are still trying to do our jobs, whether people like it or not.
However, if we don't detect something as a problem, and we see that a big majority of the forums also doesn't, then it's not really worth doing it.
When Nin made the FAQ Update topic, almost no normal user there gave any feedback or interest, except for like, you and Shad.
<Shroom> Well, the irony is that many forum users also don't care much about ongoing things. These topics just stay there without being replied further ... it seems like both the staff is too thin, and there's too few interest in the regular user base - things which seem to be mutually dependent, and just the one person who busts their ♥♥♥ off, stays outside. It's quite jinxed.
<FrozenFire> Yeah, that's the other side of the thing. People are usually okay with a lot of situations, even when they shouldn't.
I just think that the problem is that you focus way too much energy on voicing yourself. While people absolutely do not care, you care way too much. And seeing how that's really different from practically everybody else there, it's normal that they're going to think it's annoying.
It shouldn't be a problem, but it is. And it's hard to not notice your strong personality, lol.
So, in conclusion, it unfortunately isn't something we can't fix. We can't take just one user's suggestions in consideration, because it's unfair. But, people simply seem to not care, which is understandable, because everyone else has things to focus their energies on.
So, as a hint of advice, I just tell you to focus your energy on something else. Whenever is it books, or exercise, or studying, it's up to you.
We can't stop you from complaining about stuff, though.
And, last and most important.
I'll answer this one quick and strict: Just because we had inumerous arguments with you, doesn't mean we are completely considering you as the Public Enemy #1.
You may have lost our confidence, and maybe your own empathy. But you need to work a lot harder to break our bonds with you.
And even if that's not true for everybody, at least I can safely say that for me it is.
I'm still there to help you.
Always.
In the same way I expect you to be always there to help me.
So yeah.
That was me answering the stuff I can.
If you have any another stuff to tell, then don't refrain.
<Shroom> Hm. Having me focused on something different is still not a proper solution to the problem if the staff falls again into inactivity.
<FrozenFire> Yeah. I know.
But like I said, it's something we can't do much about. Everyone has their sides, and it's hard to obey all of them.
We do our best to do what's important, though.
And it's also important to have someone like you as part of a conscience.
<Shroom> Today at 7:08 PM
What you can definitely do is enlargeing the team. If you all still don't want me joining the staff, maybe ask someone like Veso, Nan or Chau.
<FrozenFire> Chau's by default already part of everything lmao.
<Shroom> Well, but for the other two ... the few bastions of interest and decisiveness should be really used, in my opinion.
<FrozenFire> Also, I particularly don't see the need of making the team bigger. We don't need more staff, but we need staff doing more stuff. But everything takes its time- that's where patience acts on, from both sides.
<Shroom> That would work theoretically, but often enough, life comes in-between, and then you don't have enough alternatives to act ...
http://runouw.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5&p=354755#p354755 Shade also summed it up some time ago. When Doram vanishes for a longer time, we can easily have problems.
<FrozenFire> If anything, Veso and Nan (in my humble opinion) wouldn't do a lot. Nan's pretty busy with other stuff.
And I'm afraid Veso isn't really ready for that.
Yeaaaaaaah.
About the Doram thing.
We literally have no idea of how to overcome that. Doram's pretty much the guy when it comes to getting stuff into the forums, and even then, he can't do everything.
I don't know if you are aware already, but he has no FTP access. And we tried to make Runouw give him permissions but he doesn't know how to either.
<Shroom> Yeah tbh that was just some stuff I just picked out ... but another thing.
Is MoD still helping for level approval?
If not, it bounds your hands so you cannot be absent for longer, else we end up like in August where levels queued up for a week+.
<FrozenFire> I can't lie. MoD hasn't done stuff since, sigh, a certain point.
<Shroom> MoD has existential worries. All respect for her aside, I see it as adequate to give her a bit of exoneration (however you call it...)
<FrozenFire> I'm 100% sure her cancer and the entire chemo thing are in fault for that.
It's something I need to talk with her. I myself know that there will be a time where I won't be there to do stuff. And she's a lemon too.
Demoting her is not an option though. Nor is promoting anyone.
At least not yet.
<Shroom> Well ... totally no matter about who will be the lucky one in the case, for that it's also about acting quickly enough, to avoid the things from August.
<FrozenFire> Notice that these thing usually happen in August/September.
It's usually the time where people has exams and a lot of stuff to confront with IRL.
<Shroom> Hm. Apart from seasonal effects, weren't there still a few times where I've waited a few days and then made you attentive on the levels waiting?
<FrozenFire> Yeah, lol.
There's still a need to take a break from stuff Runouw related, though
It's hard to do that when you have 5 levels to approve per day
<Shroom> To be honest, often enough I wish for a spiritual successor, who is engaged and interested similarily as I am.
<FrozenFire> It's hard to find people willing to do stuff. And it's even harder to find people willing to do stuff on this site.
Anyways. I'll head off to do something else. That was quite tiresome.
<Shroom> Thanks for a talk on a mature level, though.
That was useful.
<FrozenFire> So in conclusion from everything I've said: Work on your bonds with people more. Respect, trust, empathy, love, everything is involved.
Emotions are just as important as logic is.
What was that about people in the staff being unconcerned and close-hearted
Also
Why do you think I'd have a strained relationship with you
Please answer me.
<Shroom> Well, if you insist. There was just quite often some lashing out I've experienced from you and others. Especially on January 12th (Problem: Raz being rude about my suggestions) and ... 24th, I guess? (Problem: Staff not seeming to care about spamming comments on LDP, also caused by my outburst of being frustrated with reports being unsuccessful).
And maybe "unconcerned" doesn't fit entirely but there are often so many gaps where the problems lie on the open street ... and why? Because not enough people are in positions of power, and if some of them are missing due to being busy or other issues, we end up in stagnancy. Two mods, two lemods, that's not stable in the long run.
<FrozenFire> Alright. First off, I want you to know that we're not disallowing you to express yourself or anything. If you indeed have something bothering you, then you should contact that with the person you have problems with.
Don't just keep venting your problems to Doram or to Ven.
Other staff may seem rude or blunt in the chat, but that's because the heated discussions usually start there. And they can't help themselves but to correct what's wrong. It's the staff job, isn't it?
However, if you just PM with someone and make your point respectful, the person will be respectful with you, believe you or not. And that doesn't happen only with staff.
About your frustrations with Raz (and maybe other people). If you want to tell him that you got offended because you were called nitpicky, that's fine. But think about it for a second. We were working a lot on the back on the staff chat, and we really wanted to get things done and the forums organized for once.
<Shroom> Hm ... good point, but you know what they say, once burnt, twice shy. But actually, for me it seems like nothing is going on for multiple days or even weeks, the FAQ topic exists for almost 4 months now.
<FrozenFire> But when we did the topic about it asking about opinions, you just came there and wrote an enormous reply saying that there was a lot of stuff missing out on there. It may not be anything to you, but it's disappointing to know you don't take the suggestions we made in consideration.
The point I'm trying to reach is: Whether you consider anyone blatantly wrong or anything, express it as an opinion, and not as the ultimate truth.
You may not even sound like you're not trying to correct the staff, but it's hard to know that when you're not on the receiving end.
So, well, it ended up like it should. You stated something you thought was true. Raz also stated something he thought was true.
And, about the unconcerned staff thing. In mine's and the entire staff's defense, if there is something we really care about, we do it. And normal users always act as a catalyst. We are still trying to do our jobs, whether people like it or not.
However, if we don't detect something as a problem, and we see that a big majority of the forums also doesn't, then it's not really worth doing it.
When Nin made the FAQ Update topic, almost no normal user there gave any feedback or interest, except for like, you and Shad.
<Shroom> Well, the irony is that many forum users also don't care much about ongoing things. These topics just stay there without being replied further ... it seems like both the staff is too thin, and there's too few interest in the regular user base - things which seem to be mutually dependent, and just the one person who busts their ♥♥♥ off, stays outside. It's quite jinxed.
<FrozenFire> Yeah, that's the other side of the thing. People are usually okay with a lot of situations, even when they shouldn't.
I just think that the problem is that you focus way too much energy on voicing yourself. While people absolutely do not care, you care way too much. And seeing how that's really different from practically everybody else there, it's normal that they're going to think it's annoying.
It shouldn't be a problem, but it is. And it's hard to not notice your strong personality, lol.
So, in conclusion, it unfortunately isn't something we can't fix. We can't take just one user's suggestions in consideration, because it's unfair. But, people simply seem to not care, which is understandable, because everyone else has things to focus their energies on.
So, as a hint of advice, I just tell you to focus your energy on something else. Whenever is it books, or exercise, or studying, it's up to you.
We can't stop you from complaining about stuff, though.
And, last and most important.
I'll answer this one quick and strict: Just because we had inumerous arguments with you, doesn't mean we are completely considering you as the Public Enemy #1.
You may have lost our confidence, and maybe your own empathy. But you need to work a lot harder to break our bonds with you.
And even if that's not true for everybody, at least I can safely say that for me it is.
I'm still there to help you.
Always.
In the same way I expect you to be always there to help me.
So yeah.
That was me answering the stuff I can.
If you have any another stuff to tell, then don't refrain.
<Shroom> Hm. Having me focused on something different is still not a proper solution to the problem if the staff falls again into inactivity.
<FrozenFire> Yeah. I know.
But like I said, it's something we can't do much about. Everyone has their sides, and it's hard to obey all of them.
We do our best to do what's important, though.
And it's also important to have someone like you as part of a conscience.
<Shroom> Today at 7:08 PM
What you can definitely do is enlargeing the team. If you all still don't want me joining the staff, maybe ask someone like Veso, Nan or Chau.
<FrozenFire> Chau's by default already part of everything lmao.
<Shroom> Well, but for the other two ... the few bastions of interest and decisiveness should be really used, in my opinion.
<FrozenFire> Also, I particularly don't see the need of making the team bigger. We don't need more staff, but we need staff doing more stuff. But everything takes its time- that's where patience acts on, from both sides.
<Shroom> That would work theoretically, but often enough, life comes in-between, and then you don't have enough alternatives to act ...
http://runouw.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5&p=354755#p354755 Shade also summed it up some time ago. When Doram vanishes for a longer time, we can easily have problems.
<FrozenFire> If anything, Veso and Nan (in my humble opinion) wouldn't do a lot. Nan's pretty busy with other stuff.
And I'm afraid Veso isn't really ready for that.
Yeaaaaaaah.
About the Doram thing.
We literally have no idea of how to overcome that. Doram's pretty much the guy when it comes to getting stuff into the forums, and even then, he can't do everything.
I don't know if you are aware already, but he has no FTP access. And we tried to make Runouw give him permissions but he doesn't know how to either.
<Shroom> Yeah tbh that was just some stuff I just picked out ... but another thing.
Is MoD still helping for level approval?
If not, it bounds your hands so you cannot be absent for longer, else we end up like in August where levels queued up for a week+.
<FrozenFire> I can't lie. MoD hasn't done stuff since, sigh, a certain point.
<Shroom> MoD has existential worries. All respect for her aside, I see it as adequate to give her a bit of exoneration (however you call it...)
<FrozenFire> I'm 100% sure her cancer and the entire chemo thing are in fault for that.
It's something I need to talk with her. I myself know that there will be a time where I won't be there to do stuff. And she's a lemon too.
Demoting her is not an option though. Nor is promoting anyone.
At least not yet.
<Shroom> Well ... totally no matter about who will be the lucky one in the case, for that it's also about acting quickly enough, to avoid the things from August.
<FrozenFire> Notice that these thing usually happen in August/September.
It's usually the time where people has exams and a lot of stuff to confront with IRL.
<Shroom> Hm. Apart from seasonal effects, weren't there still a few times where I've waited a few days and then made you attentive on the levels waiting?
<FrozenFire> Yeah, lol.
There's still a need to take a break from stuff Runouw related, though
It's hard to do that when you have 5 levels to approve per day
<Shroom> To be honest, often enough I wish for a spiritual successor, who is engaged and interested similarily as I am.
<FrozenFire> It's hard to find people willing to do stuff. And it's even harder to find people willing to do stuff on this site.
Anyways. I'll head off to do something else. That was quite tiresome.
<Shroom> Thanks for a talk on a mature level, though.
That was useful.
<FrozenFire> So in conclusion from everything I've said: Work on your bonds with people more. Respect, trust, empathy, love, everything is involved.
Emotions are just as important as logic is.
Talk with Doram, shorter: show
<Doram> Well, there's nothing wrong with saying what you want to say, you just need to figure out how to say it in such a way that you aren't upsetting people.
I know it's hard.
I screw it up sometimes myself, even with all the work I've done on it myself.
At first, it takes a LOT of time to go over it in your head and look at it from a bunch of different angles, but eventually, you get used to thinking about things that way, and it becomes a lot easier and faster for you to figure out.
The simplest angle is just looking at what you want to say from the opposite angle - how would you feel if someone else said that to you.
It's confusing sometimes, too. Because connecting with other people is an important part of life, and to do that, you have to understand and care about what other people think and feel, and take that into account before you interact with them, but on the other hand, for you to be able to live your life and be ok with that, you have to be able to make decisions for yourself, about yourself, and you have to NOT care what everyone else thinks, because it's your life, and you are the one who has to deal with it, and that's a very personal thing.
<Shroom> Lawl those are almost the same words from a german song I know well ... but to be honest, being banned for multiple weeks after a disastrous catenation of circumstances isn't something you forget that easily. On one side I'm not easy to be shocked anymore, but on the other side I also became scared very easily.
And it's not only about avoiding punishments, it's also still about the highest of my goals. It's still there every day although I didn't talk about it for more than 2 months (forcedly), and for me it seems like I can't allow myself becoming unconcerned about the happenings. And basically, in the end I follow the voice of my heart when it's about to voice things or flee.
<Doram> Scared is normal. Scared is common. Scared is OK, BUT you should never let fear stop you. Fear is just a warning from the universe that you need to pay careful attention. The thing is, you have to still try. The only way to learn is to get out there and keep trying. Yes, mistakes will happen, but you need to remain calm about them, and understand them for what they are - stepping stones to success. when you have figured out all the ways to do it wrong, you will have isolated the way to do it right.
And, caring is important. Seriously. Caring is a very powerful thing, and will guide you to your true task in this life, and one of the most beneficial things you can do with your time.
The thing is, you need to also have patience and perspective.
Perspective is understanding the true importance of things, and being able to both deal with the small details of it as well as understand its place in the big picture.
Patience is simply being ok with waiting for others to do their part.
The most important things in life have nothing to do with the clock or the calendar, and will be ruined if you try to rush or contain them in that way.
And, sometimes, you have to be patient with yourself too.
<Shroom> Actually, there's a mild difference between just waiting, and wondering why I've got to wait. And I'm still thinking that there's not enough staff, and that this is the core of the problem, the main problem of stagnancy. And the irony is that many forum users also don't care much about ongoing things. Both things seem to be mutually dependent, and the one person of all people who busts their ♥♥♥ off, stays outside.
People seem to feel the general stagnancy and it seems to make them lose interest.
<Doram> Well, perspective. We were really busy last year with the RO and other stuff, and now we're in a bit of a lull. It's not stagnation if we are just resting to prepare for the upcoming tasks ahead.
There's rumblings about stuff to do for April Fools, and while I'm not taking on a full RO this year, I might be able to pull off a smaller summer video game tournament, and I definitely want to do this year's fall/winter activities much better, so there's plenty to look forward to.(edited)
Ultimately, it's one of the ways that our modern information age hasn't fully formed yet, since the Internet allows everything on it to move so fast, and yet there are plenty of other parts of our life that haven't sped up at all, making them seem all the slower for it.
I know it's hard.
I screw it up sometimes myself, even with all the work I've done on it myself.
At first, it takes a LOT of time to go over it in your head and look at it from a bunch of different angles, but eventually, you get used to thinking about things that way, and it becomes a lot easier and faster for you to figure out.
The simplest angle is just looking at what you want to say from the opposite angle - how would you feel if someone else said that to you.
It's confusing sometimes, too. Because connecting with other people is an important part of life, and to do that, you have to understand and care about what other people think and feel, and take that into account before you interact with them, but on the other hand, for you to be able to live your life and be ok with that, you have to be able to make decisions for yourself, about yourself, and you have to NOT care what everyone else thinks, because it's your life, and you are the one who has to deal with it, and that's a very personal thing.
<Shroom> Lawl those are almost the same words from a german song I know well ... but to be honest, being banned for multiple weeks after a disastrous catenation of circumstances isn't something you forget that easily. On one side I'm not easy to be shocked anymore, but on the other side I also became scared very easily.
And it's not only about avoiding punishments, it's also still about the highest of my goals. It's still there every day although I didn't talk about it for more than 2 months (forcedly), and for me it seems like I can't allow myself becoming unconcerned about the happenings. And basically, in the end I follow the voice of my heart when it's about to voice things or flee.
<Doram> Scared is normal. Scared is common. Scared is OK, BUT you should never let fear stop you. Fear is just a warning from the universe that you need to pay careful attention. The thing is, you have to still try. The only way to learn is to get out there and keep trying. Yes, mistakes will happen, but you need to remain calm about them, and understand them for what they are - stepping stones to success. when you have figured out all the ways to do it wrong, you will have isolated the way to do it right.
And, caring is important. Seriously. Caring is a very powerful thing, and will guide you to your true task in this life, and one of the most beneficial things you can do with your time.
The thing is, you need to also have patience and perspective.
Perspective is understanding the true importance of things, and being able to both deal with the small details of it as well as understand its place in the big picture.
Patience is simply being ok with waiting for others to do their part.
The most important things in life have nothing to do with the clock or the calendar, and will be ruined if you try to rush or contain them in that way.
And, sometimes, you have to be patient with yourself too.
<Shroom> Actually, there's a mild difference between just waiting, and wondering why I've got to wait. And I'm still thinking that there's not enough staff, and that this is the core of the problem, the main problem of stagnancy. And the irony is that many forum users also don't care much about ongoing things. Both things seem to be mutually dependent, and the one person of all people who busts their ♥♥♥ off, stays outside.
People seem to feel the general stagnancy and it seems to make them lose interest.
<Doram> Well, perspective. We were really busy last year with the RO and other stuff, and now we're in a bit of a lull. It's not stagnation if we are just resting to prepare for the upcoming tasks ahead.
There's rumblings about stuff to do for April Fools, and while I'm not taking on a full RO this year, I might be able to pull off a smaller summer video game tournament, and I definitely want to do this year's fall/winter activities much better, so there's plenty to look forward to.(edited)
Ultimately, it's one of the ways that our modern information age hasn't fully formed yet, since the Internet allows everything on it to move so fast, and yet there are plenty of other parts of our life that haven't sped up at all, making them seem all the slower for it.
So, this has helped to get off some misunderstandings finally, I hope. It's good that I can feel more confident now.
This was actually posted in Site Discussion because not only was the theme site-related, but also I want to see more regular users becoming more active for the ongoing things and voicing their opinions more often. This pertains the entire active user base on the chat, as well as those who aren't active on chat but still post often on the forums, and even those who stumble randomly across this thread. Dare to say more things. Feel free to push on things as well if adequate. Don't let me be the only one interacting with staff on things like the FAQ or Forum Reorganization.
Thank you for your time.
So yeah. In the case you people do need more staff, I wouldn't mind being a Moderator. Like, regular orange one.
