(A)theism

[Germanity]

Yes, I know religion is a very treacherous topic, but I hope this doesn't lead to a flame war.

Now, I'm personally a religious Roman Catholic, but I'm going to present it from an impartial stance. Oh, and bear in mind that this does not apply to all atheists/theists, in fact only a few, as most are benevolent in their words and willing to discuss things with an open mind. However, the narrow-minded seem to be the most outspoken, so here we go.

So let's start off by looking a a theist standpoint. Theists look at the world, and think to themselves, "Gee, how in the world was this stuff made? How is the earth so perfect for life? Definitely not by anything we can even begin to understand." So theists believe there is a supreme force, namely, God(s).

Now, let's look at the atheist standpoint. Atheists look at the world, and how it is created. They see physics, astronomy, molecular physics, and other sciences, and think to themselves, "This planet is impressive, but we can prove it's creation and the way it works, bit by bit, using logic." Seeing no need for a God to back up their beliefs, they choose not to have one. Hey, why pack extra socks for a weekend trip when you already have 15 pairs?

Now, imagine a group gathering, where atheists and theists are having a theological discussion.

The atheist look at the theist, and think, "What irrational people. They use their God to get away with stuff, all for this 'heaven.'" So atheists consider themselves superior to theists.

Theists, on the other hand, looks at the atheist, and wonders, "Why live your life and have nothing to look forward to? Why be so ignorant to believe that humans can truly comprehend all of the happenings in the universe?" Now theists believe they are the superiors to atheists.

Atheists think to themselves, "What logic is there in theism? Since science can be proved and religion can't be proved, why believe in something not proved rather than something that already is proved." Theists reply, "So how did it happen that we are here, alive, breathing, and living organisms, on a perfect planet?" Atheists reply, "Evolution." Theists reply, "Really, then how did evolution begin?" Atheists go on about inorganic molecules, while theists are discussing the improbability of it. Atheists, then, point out, "Just because something is improbable doesn't mean it is impossible. Evolution from inorganic molecules at least is backed by scientific fact. Your God isn't." And the theists are silenced.

But the theists aren't done yet. "Okay, so how did the universe originate? The Big Bang? How did that begin?" Atheists reply, "A superexplosion of a tiny molecule, forming in the lucky organization of atoms, molecules, and eventually, macromolecules." Theists then reply, "Then how on earth did the molecules somehow manage to arrange themselves in their current form." "Simple polar/non-polar bonding rules," the atheists shoot back. The theists then reply, "So how did the molecule that formed the universe come into existence? There had to be something before the Big Bang." The atheists reply, "At least the Big Bang makes more scientific fact than a god." Theists counter with, "Really? On whose logic, our own imperfect one?" And the atheists this time hesitate to reply back.

The atheists, however, aren't going to back down. "Okay, if your God truly is perfect, then why does he allow death and horrors?" The theists reply, "It is His will." The atheists have heard this one before. "Oh, so is it his will for murders, diseases, and horror to occur? If that is the case, he is not benevolent like you say he is. If, on the other hand, he can't stop it, then he is not omnipotent. Either way, if one of them is the case, then your God isn't real." The theists, in turn, say, "He is more like a father who allows his son to ride a bike. Every time the boy falls, he gets back up and is now a better biker. It's called experience, and is meant to strengthen one, not diminish one." A feminist shows up to complain about the use of males in the theist's speech, but is quickly shut up by both sides of the argument. (Sorry, I'm not sexist, but the feminists are a bit irritating.) The atheists, not shaken by the random outbreak, go on, saying "We assume a father isn't omnipotent. Why can't God stop these horrors." One of the theists, a Christian, replies, "This is one of the reasons Christians call our God the Father." Both sides stop to reflect on this, but not for long.

Now, the argument is growing heated. A few of the theists say "You atheists are depressing. Where do we go after life?" The atheists reply, "We encounter nothingness. We have nothing to keep us going. You theists, on the other hand, are to much of wussies to believe in a real death." The theists reply, "If we are wrong, then we have nothing to lose. If we are right, however, you have everything to lose." However, the atheists persist with their argument, and the theists persist with theirs. The argument is now irrational, with the atheists calling the theists war-like and the theists reminding the atheists of Adolf Hitler. The logic preached by both sides is all but gone.



So what is the moral of my story? That there is a counter-argument to every argument, even in religion. When one side believes there is no other counter-argument, irrationalities occur. My point is, don't let people shake you and call your religion (or lack of it) irrational and inferior to your viewpoints. Hold close to it, and don't force it upon others. Remember - you are not inferior or superior to one another because of your religion/secularism. As the old Muslim saying goes, "To each, his own religion."

[TrappedTime]

Are you an atheist?

[Buff_]

The thing is religion and science can back up each other fully, it's just those ignorant people on the scientist side and those who take the Bible too literaly, or their religious book.

Are you an atheist?

Now, I'm personally a religious Roman Catholic

*facepalm*

[Chaukai]

Alright, I'm basically Atheist, so I think I should say a few things.

You're arguement is fine, but this does not represent all Atheists. Atheists just don't believe there was some supreme being, that does not mean that they think more scientific at all. I believe that religion is good for certain people. Just not for me.

Religion is basically a person's way of finding a motivation to get through life. I think I've said this before. Religions give a person morals and ethics that they may have otherwise not learned. I am Atheist because I don't believe that I need such a thing to learn my teachings from. There are also plenty of Theists who still accept some scientific theories and what not. What your story is is two radical positions fighting against each other, which happens of course, but not a whole lot.

[Germanity]

Alright, I'm basically Atheist, so I think I should say a few things.

You're arguement is fine, but this does not represent all Atheists. Atheists just don't believe there was some supreme being, that does not mean that they think more scientific at all. I believe that religion is good for certain people. Just not for me.

Religion is basically a person's way of finding a motivation to get through life. I think I've said this before. Religions give a person morals and ethics that they may have otherwise not learned. I am Atheist because I don't believe that I need such a thing to learn my teachings from. There are also plenty of Theists who still accept some scientific theories and what not. What your story is is two radical positions fighting against each other, which happens of course, but not a whole lot.

While I am aware my post does not represent all atheists, which I should have made clearer, I am not trying to represent us common folk, I'm representing the radical arguments that get us caught up into these heated debates.

If you are impervious to these, I personally commend you, but from a lot of atheists I know, they argue for secularism in science, and the radical religious (namely, the televangelists) preach the opposite, which is almost no science at all, just put faith in God. Personally, I believe that science does not disprove got, but much the opposite, as our universe is so wonderful, it's almost like, How was this an accident? They go hand in hand. Believe it or not, a lot of the heads of the Church, including the Pope, not only fund scientific research but also create their own facilities. After a brief prayer, time to find some stars or some molecules. How's that for a group of people who people like to blame for Galileo.

However, if you look across internet forums, especially those influenced by 4chan.com (my apologies for breaking internet rules #1 and #2), you will find that Christians are generally shot down frequently. This was especially true in my old forum, Jiggmin's Village, except the Christians managed to hold their own... but barely.

On the other hand, televangelists and even some priests and ministers love to shoot down atheism, with little fact or proof. This gives the impression of theists being science-haters, which really isn't true for the most part.

One question theists love to ask is, "If there is no God, why do you need to disprove him?" And the atheists reply with the inverse of the statement, "If there is a God, why do you need to prove him?" Personally, I feel I have nothing to prove, but others do.

Now, don't ask me how I managed to reply to your post with a tl;dr post, but I will add that this does not apply to all atheists/theists.

[E123omega]

I am sorry if I offend anyone but, Atheism isn't a religion not collecting isn't a hobby.

I believe in one God, the father the almighty, maker of heaven and Earth, of all that is seen and unseen, I believe in one lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the father, god from god, light from light, true god from true god, begotten, not made, one in being with the father. Through him all things are made, for us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven, by the power of the holy spirit, he was born of the virgin Mary,he was crucified under Ponscius Pilate, he suffered died and was buried, on the third day he rose again , in fulfillment of the scriptures, he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

[Germanity]

I am sorry if I offend anyone but, Atheism isn't a religion not collecting isn't a hobby.

I believe in one God, the father the almighty, maker of heaven and Earth, of all that is seen and unseen, I believe in one lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the father, god from god, light from light, true god from true god, begotten, not made, one in being with the father. Through him all things are made, for us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven, by the power of the holy spirit, he was born of the virgin Mary,he was crucified under Ponscius Pilate, he suffered died and was buried, on the third day he rose again , in fulfillment of the scriptures, he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

Interesting random outbreak... I don't believe I had called atheism a religion though.

[E123omega]

I know, but I want to point that out.

[Demonik]

Yeah, I'm a Greek catholic, so I too believe in Jesus Christ, son of God. I'm not a truly serious religious person though. I don't go to Churches to worship God and his son, I merely believe.

[nin10mode]

Yeah, I'm a Greek catholic, so I too believe in Jesus Christ, son of God. I'm not a truly serious religious person though. I don't go to Churches to worship God and his son, I merely believe.

My parents MAKE me go every week! Well, that, and I need to go every sunday/saturday if I want to be confirmed. So yeah, I'm not much of a religious person either.
(Roman Catholic btw)