The Discussion Corner

Discussion about serious personal, political, educational, or other issues.
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This is Serious Discussion. If you want to tell us how your day was or just get some things off your chest, you will find ample opportunity to find a corner to discuss all the good things we see, or reach out to anyone who needs help. Just remember to pay attention to the Principles of Serious Discussion, and link to the source if posting news.

Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby -BY » April 1st, 2015, 12:23 am

Supershroom wrote:Education in Germany could be ... better, actually. What really sucks is that it's federal and every state does its own ♥♥♥♥ and curriculums differ extremely. What sucks the most in Baden-Wuerttemberg is the thing with G8, completing high school in eight years instead of nine liked it used to be. The consequences are: More classes per week (in 10th grade I had classes until 3:30 pm each day), rushing through learning matters, everything being more stressful. I really hope we get back to G9 soon. The thing called "ministry of culture" sucks as ♥♥♥♥ in general, the final exams get tougher and tougher and really unfair, especially in Math there have been many complaints from both students and teachers about the difficulty level.

I also really disapprove the system of separating kids after 4th grade into lower secondary school (Hauptschule), secondary school (Realschule) and high school (Gymnasium). Instead, we should try harder to strengthen our primary schools and support kids from the beginning, because many kids on Hauptschule or Realschule would actually have more potential, but they didn't get enough support at the start. With more support, one of the three separation grades could possibly removed. Of course success in school highly correlates with social circumstances, it's actually impossible to give everyone the same chances, yet there could be some effort to prevent the gaps from widening further.

I don't know the situation in other German states, but in Baden-Wuerttemberg somebody should come and tweak the whole system.



Coming from Bavaria, which is said to have the most difficult system in germany, I can tell that I often think that I'm having some kind of advantage in comparision to others. However, I can imagine that others may think differently. Especially people from the areas with lower educational standards. I was a long time against the school splitting system as well. But tbh. If you think about it, it's not that bad. If teachers cannot teach at higher schools, simply because they're not as advanced knowledge wise, then it's better for them to teach at a lower school than being forced to do so in a higher one.
Splitting schools also gives people a legit chance, when they're at a disadvantage (I seriously hope they will never ever consider to merge Hauptschule and Realschule). While many people think we've way too much different school types, I'm kind of liking the option to go your way the way you want. Also don't forget that if one school is too difficult to you, you've the chance to step down to an easier one, in ~66.66% of the cases (At least for your example). I am coming from a Realschule and I didn't go to Gymnasium. Not because I missed out support or anything. I simply didn't want the stress immediately raining down on me. (My ~8 year ago me, did a grand job there. If I'm ever time travelling, I'll pat my back.) Instead, I'll do my Abitur afterwards now, which, tbh is working much much better for me. However, having a general school in germany should be something people should achieve slowly within the next years or even decades. I thought G8 isn't like forced anymore? I could swear there've been discussions in the past to make both G8 and G9 an option now? However. Need to admit that I'm most likely not up to date there anymore. As for teacher and students complaining about too difficult exams. It happens here too. And my friends from places all across germany tell the same thing. (Why did you guys leave me back? D :) So it's mere whining for me.

Primary schools were the worst thing and I think they even managed to do worse now. So I'll not even start here.

Still. Your view on the school system is an interesting one, Shroom.
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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby lordpat » April 21st, 2015, 9:26 am

Hello! Let me make this quick. I started college and I have to wake up very early, and I like discussing things with Ven before updating the corner, and Ven's in the chat a bit late for me. I will try to do my best to stay in contact with him, so sorry that I haven't updated the corner in so long.

BUT HEY, I AM UPDATING IT NOW!

What is your position on your current criminal system? What do you think about the fact that taxpayers mantain the criminals? Should criminals, in your opinion, work in prision?


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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby Harmless » April 23rd, 2015, 8:07 pm

If it's property damage or something replaceable, no matter how grueling, then yes. By all means they should work off twice of what they caused.

If it's murder, especially with intent, then I'm surprised they are even being kept in prison.
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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby Doram » May 8th, 2015, 1:15 pm

Oh, holy hell, prison. (Might as well jump back in the pool. It HAS been a while...Got stuff to do, so I'll make it quick, though.)

Ok, Prison is supposed to serve two main purposes.
  1. Isolate dangerous people away from everyone else for the protection of the general public.
  2. Rehabilitate, if possible, those people, for re-integration into proper society.

Most prison systems fail on both counts. If there is ANY contact with the outside world, there is nothing stopping the hardened criminal from continuing "business" while locked up, and without mandatory psych counseling, (much less people in the system actually devoted to proper treatment of these individuals), you cannot hope to properly make people better for the experience, after serving their term. For the most part, right now in many countries, Prison is Facebook for criminals. It's a place to make connections, and little more.

As for whether they should work, I don't care about that nearly as much as the things I just mentioned. If they can find a way to become productive members of society by learning a trade while they're in there, then all the better, but that shouldn't be the primary goal. The primary goal should be fixing the anti-social behavior that got them locked up in the first place.

And, while I'm at it, no, I am not touching on the wrongly imprisoned at all right now. That is a separate and complicated problem.
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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby Karyete » May 8th, 2015, 1:18 pm

I can't really word it well but I hate the current prison system. Don't get me started on "life" sentences.

Also congrats on 1000th post Doram :>
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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby Kimonio » May 8th, 2015, 2:31 pm

Doram wrote:Prison is Facebook for criminals.

According to what I've seen, read, and researched, they've given internet to the ones who are good boys and girls.

But yeah, the rehabilitation is definitely one of the failures today. Rather than rehabilitate them for re-entry, we just..release them. We don't even try anymore. It's like we just gave up one day and said "You know, once they're bad they will always be bad", and we just either give them life or give them a sentence short enough that they don't even have time to know they're punished.
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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby Harmless » May 10th, 2015, 2:33 pm

Again, if it's not causing the death of someone(s) then sure, try to fix them and make them productive people of society. Whether or not it takes a ton of resources depending on the individual is questionable, though. I've seen some pretty messed-up people in my life that were carried off to prison, and I doubt they're going to get out of there anytime soon.

If they've intently murdered someone then that's just flat out unforgivable. Give 'em the death sentence.
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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby ~MP3 Amplifier~ » May 10th, 2015, 3:03 pm

Harmless wrote:If they've intently murdered someone then that's just flat out unforgivable. Give 'em the death sentence.


We don't have death sentence in the UK, the worst here is a life sentence (and that's not even for life so the term is basically a lie).
Over here, I think if someone was a murderer, they should receive mandatory counselling or therapy of some kind, a bit like what Doram was saying.
Maybe this is no more than being sectioned, but the mental health act over here says you can be sectioned if you pose a threat to either yourself or someone else.
By killing someone, you immediately fit the criteria for a section.

A healthy minded person would never murder someone intentionally, so by their actions you can gather immediately that there is something wrong with them, whether that's a mental health problem, or a different set of morals due to a different background, etc.

Either way, changing prisoners' mindsets no matter what crime they've committed is one of the most important parts IMO. How can you hope to return them into the community if all they're being set up for is a relapse in their actions?

I'm quite glad we don't have the death sentence here, because I do believe in second chances. But it depends on the circumstances- if you have a psychopathic serial killer for instance, then I do get easily swayed towards it.


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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby NanTheDark » May 10th, 2015, 4:01 pm

Make them work. I don't agree with killing them because I feel it's not up to us to decide who should or shouldn't die. But make them work. Let them pay back to society somehow.

And the therapy/counseling thing sounds nice I guess.
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Re: The Discussion Corner

Postby Harmless » May 10th, 2015, 8:28 pm

If it's not us to decide who should or shouldn't die, then who would? Would you rather let the murderer decide who dies and who doesn't die? I certainly wouldn't, because if they're going to intently murder someone I would certainly NOT trust their judgement.

Someone has to take charge, or else they're just going to keep doing the same thing over and over again. Prisons and re habitual centers have taught us one thing - Stuffing murderers in there is a waste of resources, space, and effort, because once they're done with their term, who's to say they're not going to get the impression that they can just commit murder again, wait some more years, and get off scot free? We need to send a message to not commit murder in the first place, because right now our prisons tell them you can get away with it!

Not to mention that we can't recover lost lives. People who die cannot be brought back, at least that's what our current technology tells us. If we can, then great, murder suddenly becomes less of a major offense (though it would likely still be major because it would cause permanent damage in the psyche). Permanent damage, especially permanently shutting down any human's right to live, is certainly not okay.

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