- This post by darthbrowser was thumbed up by: 3
- KABOOM (September 26th, 2014, 4:25 pm) • Konradix (December 11th, 2014, 1:47 am) • Oranjui (September 26th, 2014, 1:46 pm)
The iCloud Celebrity Leak of August 31st
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This is Serious Discussion. If you want to tell us how your day was or just get some things off your chest, you will find ample opportunity to find a corner to discuss all the good things we see, or reach out to anyone who needs help. Just remember to pay attention to the Principles of Serious Discussion, and link to the source if posting news.
Re: The iCloud Celebrity Leak of August 31st
Thumbs up x3 
by darthbrowser » September 26th, 2014, 1:23 am
This community is in desperate need of feminism 101, so here goes.
Everyone has skipped discussing the assumptions and jumped to the results and how to prevent them, so lets backpeddle.
Someone's nudes were hacked and then disseminated across the internet. This is bad.
But why is it bad? Because exposing these women degraded and demeaned them to the larger community - and the hackers got a thrill from doing this en' mass.
Ok. But wait - there's another assumption yet: having a sexuality, and expressing it, is a valid reason to expect yourself to be seen as a uncivilized person - as less than a person.
Some interesting ideas here. Where did they come? Patriarchy.
And for those of you about to state that men are affected by nude pictures being released as well, try and consider the effect on those men compared to the effects on the women. Be honest. They don't compare.
Essentially, all of our ideas about sex and gender exist for the sole - yes, sole - purpose of projecting a power hierarchy.
Look at the views of sexuality around you for a moment. The first thing you notice (usually) is the obvious double standard; whereby a guy who has lots of sex is awesome, whereas a girl who does so is a slut who can never marry. But what else is there? Well, look at how we approach dating and sex in the first place. The man is always expected to initiate every interaction - from setting up dates to sexual encounters. This makes male sexuality inherently predatory, which directly leads into phenomena such as rape. Furthermore, sex and love are seen as a video game. Men jump through hoops to prove themselves worthy, and women give up the prizes. It's far from a mutual afar - women are assumed to exist solely as tools with which to rank men in terms of each other.
As a result, when a woman has lots of sex, she's "easy." Easy in terms of what? In terms of the competition. To interact with her is literally like playing a game on easy difficulty. She's not a human being, just a game board to compete on.
And so when someone has nudes disseminated across the internet, she's degraded. She's demeaned. Her sexuality is no longer rare, it's no longer a prize to be desired. And she should be ashamed of that, because, after all, as a woman she has no other worth.
Ok, whatever. If women just didn't take nude selfies, it would all be good, right? Nothing to get demeaned by.
Wrong.
Let's look at some examples.
Western world today: "Oh, if she didn't wear such revealing clothing, everything would be fine! Arab world today: If women just didn't go outside without a male companion and didn't drive, things would be fine! Greco-Arab cultures ~6th century: Women are half as smart as men, so if they just didn't express their opinions, everything would be fine! See the problem? It's a slippery slope - and women always lose in the end.
Look at how women are raised, versus how men are raised. Women are constantly bombarded with advice as to how to avoid "asking for it," i.e. "don't wear that, don't go there at night," etc., and even other female friends offer negative advice, like "play hard to get." But men? I was raised with a single mother, and not once was I encouraged not to rape. Not once was I told that no means no. On the other hand, I was told quite a few times to watch out for the assorted whores, sluts, and similar vixens of the world who wanted to use me. After all, women obviously rule the world and are in a position to extort every man they meet.
Now, let's look at a hypothetical world - one where human sexuality isn't shameful - and imagine this same situation. What would happen? Nothing. And as a result, this wouldn't have happened in the first place - there would be no motivation for the hackers to bother. There would be revenge porn sites to try and ruin people's lives by making them unemployable, as employers wouldn't care. There would be no rapists, because rape is about enforcing power disparities - and there would be none to enforce.
So no, the problem is not naked pictures. The problem is patriarchy.
Everyone has skipped discussing the assumptions and jumped to the results and how to prevent them, so lets backpeddle.
Someone's nudes were hacked and then disseminated across the internet. This is bad.
But why is it bad? Because exposing these women degraded and demeaned them to the larger community - and the hackers got a thrill from doing this en' mass.
Ok. But wait - there's another assumption yet: having a sexuality, and expressing it, is a valid reason to expect yourself to be seen as a uncivilized person - as less than a person.
Some interesting ideas here. Where did they come? Patriarchy.
And for those of you about to state that men are affected by nude pictures being released as well, try and consider the effect on those men compared to the effects on the women. Be honest. They don't compare.
Essentially, all of our ideas about sex and gender exist for the sole - yes, sole - purpose of projecting a power hierarchy.
Look at the views of sexuality around you for a moment. The first thing you notice (usually) is the obvious double standard; whereby a guy who has lots of sex is awesome, whereas a girl who does so is a slut who can never marry. But what else is there? Well, look at how we approach dating and sex in the first place. The man is always expected to initiate every interaction - from setting up dates to sexual encounters. This makes male sexuality inherently predatory, which directly leads into phenomena such as rape. Furthermore, sex and love are seen as a video game. Men jump through hoops to prove themselves worthy, and women give up the prizes. It's far from a mutual afar - women are assumed to exist solely as tools with which to rank men in terms of each other.
As a result, when a woman has lots of sex, she's "easy." Easy in terms of what? In terms of the competition. To interact with her is literally like playing a game on easy difficulty. She's not a human being, just a game board to compete on.
And so when someone has nudes disseminated across the internet, she's degraded. She's demeaned. Her sexuality is no longer rare, it's no longer a prize to be desired. And she should be ashamed of that, because, after all, as a woman she has no other worth.
Ok, whatever. If women just didn't take nude selfies, it would all be good, right? Nothing to get demeaned by.
Wrong.
Let's look at some examples.
Western world today: "Oh, if she didn't wear such revealing clothing, everything would be fine! Arab world today: If women just didn't go outside without a male companion and didn't drive, things would be fine! Greco-Arab cultures ~6th century: Women are half as smart as men, so if they just didn't express their opinions, everything would be fine! See the problem? It's a slippery slope - and women always lose in the end.
Look at how women are raised, versus how men are raised. Women are constantly bombarded with advice as to how to avoid "asking for it," i.e. "don't wear that, don't go there at night," etc., and even other female friends offer negative advice, like "play hard to get." But men? I was raised with a single mother, and not once was I encouraged not to rape. Not once was I told that no means no. On the other hand, I was told quite a few times to watch out for the assorted whores, sluts, and similar vixens of the world who wanted to use me. After all, women obviously rule the world and are in a position to extort every man they meet.
Now, let's look at a hypothetical world - one where human sexuality isn't shameful - and imagine this same situation. What would happen? Nothing. And as a result, this wouldn't have happened in the first place - there would be no motivation for the hackers to bother. There would be revenge porn sites to try and ruin people's lives by making them unemployable, as employers wouldn't care. There would be no rapists, because rape is about enforcing power disparities - and there would be none to enforce.
So no, the problem is not naked pictures. The problem is patriarchy.
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Re: The iCloud Celebrity Leak of August 31st
by *Emelia K. Fletcher » September 26th, 2014, 11:07 am
You are not addressing why the leak of nude selfies was bad, you are addressing one of the base flaws of society
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*Emelia K. Fletcher - Who's this douchebag?
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Re: The iCloud Celebrity Leak of August 31st
by MessengerOfDreams » September 26th, 2014, 11:53 am
I don't think I expected anything less from him.
And I don't mean that in a bad way.
And I don't mean that in a bad way.
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Re: The iCloud Celebrity Leak of August 31st
by Harmless » September 26th, 2014, 12:36 pm
*Emelia Kaylee wrote:You are not addressing why the leak of nude selfies was bad, you are addressing one of the base flaws of society
Half of me agrees, half of me says otherwise that he's saying that what you've said isn't the problem in the first place. That basic flaw of society is the reason as to why humanity thinks those pics are bad, is what I think he's trying to get at.
In some ways with what he's told us, I definitely agree.
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Re: The iCloud Celebrity Leak of August 31st
by Karyete » September 28th, 2014, 7:24 am
MessengerOfDreams wrote:I don't think I expected anything less from him.
And I don't mean that in a bad way.
Neither did I. Darthbrowser always brings a lot of interest to these subjects, if you ask me.
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