runouw.com

Well, I just came up with something last night and I kind of don't want to forget it. I was talking with someone and demons came up in the conversation and whatnot, and that got me thinking. Now mind you, I'm no teologist and I'm only armed with like, no research at all, so if this ends up sounding horribly stupid... If you know more about this than I do please reply and tell me how wrong I am.

First, I'd like to start with Satan. According to current beliefs, he's like the Big Bad of real life, he's against God and wants to take over the universe or some stuff. However, I found out that the term Satan - or rather, haSatan - means "adversary" in hebrew, and it would sometimes be used to refer to an angel who would test or question the faith of mortals. And in Jewish belief this is pretty much the full extent of what this guy is.

Later in Christianity the book of Revelation happened, and Satan became a force actively opposing God. Supposedly an angel that went rogue or something. And according to what I know, demons in general are supposed to be fallen angels. Now, angels exist to serve God and do His will. I mean, God made them to do that, right? So basically... if there are angels who become evil, or side with evil...

If there's such a thing as the devil and other things that actively oppose God, why does God let them exist? He's omnipotent, He can just make them disappear if He wanted to. So I'm actually thinking that if they do exist... it's because God decided to let them exist. Maybe as part of the balance of Good and Evil or whatever, or maybe Satan still fulfills his role of prosecutor and testing the faith of mortals, in God's name. Maybe humans require testing... for something... I don't know.

Maybe I'm just confused. What are your thoughts?

NanTheDark wrote:I was talking with someone and demons came up in the conversation and whatnot, and that got me thinking.

That's just the weirdness dreams can have. I'm also dreaming absurd stuff sometimes (e.g. Runouw.com being terribly invaded by spambots)

And Satan is a fallen angel indeed. Changing sides and fighting against what you've supported or belonged to earlier is somewhat human, isn't it?

Ugh yeah, according to my religion teacher God created everything, nothing exists without God. Except evil, God didn't create that, it's just an "accident". Pretty stupid argument from his side. He either created everything either not, it's a bit of contradiction in there.
I knew the part with the jewish term before, and I want to say that I'd believe the concept of satan rather than the fallen angel theory.
Also I read an article once where it said than Anton LaVEy (the one who founded "The church of Satan") didn't actually believe in Satan itself as a fallen angel, but more the concept and he claimed that Satan represents the "freedom of the man" by not wanting to serve anyone. I'd actually follow this, I don't want to serve anyone, not even a god. During orthodox church liturgy we are constantly reffered as "God's slaves" (not slaves but something similar) and it's said that manner like it's something we should be proud of. I'm not. I refuse to call myself anyone's slave sorry to say, especially when that someone failed to help me when I needed him the most (long story, preffer not to talk about it personally).

Also if you want a personal belief I came to during a time. I don't deny there may be a superior force in the universe. It can be a god, it can be some alien species or hell it can be us all along, maybe we are the most powerful force in the universe, we cannot know. So far I have not found a reason or motivation to believe in any of these gods like Yahweh/Allah/etc.

welcome to introductory non-binary religious thought and teenage belief-related angst, may you take your ticket


i have the view that all religious figures are meant to be taken completely figuratively; god as a third party in which human responsibility is placed, satan who more closely resembles human nature as it is

my view does not extend much further because i have no reason for it to do so

Supershroom wrote:

NanTheDark wrote:I was talking with someone and demons came up in the conversation and whatnot, and that got me thinking.

That's just the weirdness dreams can have. I'm also dreaming absurd stuff sometimes (e.g. Runouw.com being terribly invaded by spambots)

And Satan is a fallen angel indeed. Changing sides and fighting against what you've supported or belonged to earlier is somewhat human, isn't it?

...I never mentioned dreams. I was awake when I thought of that.

Oh well. Terminologies like "angels", "devil" and "Satan" originated in a time dominated of religion, nescience and magic and all that instead of rationality, back in times where no king, no priest, no nobleman, no peasant doubted that one day the Apocalypse, the day of the Last Judgement will come. All questions of faith aside, the world won't end like this. That's impossible.

Supershroom wrote:Terminologies like "angels", "devil" and "Satan" originated in a time dominated of religion, nescience and magic and all that instead of rationality

you are basing your judgement of earlier time periods on today's standards

religion as an integral part of life was absolutely rational during those eras

Though to be fair, a lot of the terms back then have changed so much during today. In fact, we've taken a lot of words and misconstrued them, as if we had no bounds. 'Argument' now has a very negative connotation out of nowhere, when back in Ancient Greece it was one of the most commonly used words for a discussion, representing the point, or argument, one side had to offer.

*Emelia K. Fletcher wrote:

Supershroom wrote:Terminologies like "angels", "devil" and "Satan" originated in a time dominated of religion, nescience and magic and all that instead of rationality

you are basing your judgement of earlier time periods on today's standards

religion as an integral part of life was absolutely rational during those eras

And yet there are differences. There could still be another scientific revolution like Einstein's theory of relativity in the future, and yet there are save basic truths, which also pertains to the origin and the end of the universe. It will end with a very slow dissolution of all matter once all stars are burned down, but it won't end with an apocalypse.

Unless you want to call it an apocalypse when the sun is burned out, grows into a red giant and swallows the earth. But until then humanity likely either has died out, or lives in another galaxy.

Supershroom wrote:It will end with a very slow dissolution of all matter once all stars are burned down, but it won't end with an apocalypse.

Who says that? How can you tell that all stars will burn and no newer ones will ever replace them. Also does matter really limit to stars? Please.