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I think you guys should watch this...

....what Goldy said. I think you should watch that video.

The video does nothing. Jesus loves you? cool, whatever helps you sleep at night.

But him nor god prove he loves us because at anytime they could get rid of disease and he hasn't. He just lets the world suffer with it's many problems.

I think it's just a natural thing, regardless of religion or not. It's a situation that not even the morals of the Bible can get ahold of - God gave us the right to live by ourselves, and promised to stop interfering on the problems of humankind. In my opinion it still does not explain the diseases (such as TB's cancer) but if we are going to base ourselves on religion, it's more of a metaphorical thing where you must overcome your obstacles, regardless of what happens to you or what disease do you have.

Just my take on it, anyways.

FrozenFire wrote:it's more of a metaphorical thing where you must overcome your obstacles

And when that obstacle is an incurable, deadly illness, what do you do then?

I mean, I agree, but I still don't get it. Not a single answer has been given to the thread's original question.

See, you guys are assuming he is omnipotent. You aren't going to arrive at a satisfying answer with that.

If you want me to spell my opinion out, okay, but I thought the difference between omnipotence and omniscience was clear.

A God that is unable to do anything about it. An all-seeing, yet not all-powerful god. Maybe one that expended all of his energy already.

Victor Rsasz wrote:what kind of ♥♥♥♥ god allows diseases like alzheimers and cancer to exist, children to die of cancer before they can even get to high school, people to be crippled their entire life and unable to do simple things like walk and talk?

Hm.

These kinds of diseases were also a thing back then, right? How are these diseases even formed? Maybe some research into what exactly is cancer made up of and how it comes into a person's life would help.

I forgot to cover free will, didn't I? Yup. I forgot to cover free will. This is, in fact, the best argument I have heard from a Christian source as to why those things happen, and why they will continue to happen. (Note that this is from a Christian point of view - since that's where I studied it first - but it applies in other ways in other religions too...)

So, there's this thing. Free Will. It's serious business in Christian circles. We got it, animals don't. It's a thing. It means we have the capacity to choose. Anything. Choose Good, Choose Bad. Choose to love God and do what He says. Choose otherwise. It's all up to us. When they say that we're made in God's image, THAT is what they are talking about. He has the same power. To choose. To live our lives the way we want, and do what we want, and be who we want to be. It's a powerful thing, if you think about it.

Now, He gave us this amazing power, and He loves us UNCONDITIONALLY - let's pause for a moment over that. Unconditionally means without conditions. Without requirements. Without restrictions. Without reasons. Without end. It's how love is supposed to work, but covering that is a topic for another time - He loves us unconditionally, and respects us, and the awesomeness of this power SO MUCH, that He will not take that away from us. It's His one limitation - His one rule for Himself. He will not take control of our lives from us. He will not stop us from doing ANYTHING, because then He will have violated our Free Will.

What does that mean? That means that He cannot stop us from not loving Him, and He cannot stop us from not doing what He says. He cannot stop us from being bad people. He cannot stop us from getting hurt or hurting others. He cannot stop us from hating Him, or other people, or ourselves. He cannot stop us from ruining our planet and poisoning everyone. He cannot stop us, because if He did, that would mean the the choice was not ours, it was His, and then He will have destroyed something beautiful and infinitely valuable in His eyes.

What does that mean, when we DO decide to love Him and do what He says? That makes the faith and devotion all the more potent because it was a CHOICE. You could have chosen any of a number of other things, but out of all of that, you chose Him. That is more valuable than anything He could imagine, and worth everything else He must witness in silence.

So, in the end, it's because He loves us so much, and respects us so much, that He has consciously restrained Himself from doing this one thing: taking control of our lives, if we do not want Him to do so. And so, all of the horrors that mankind inflicts on itself is nothing that He WILL do something about, though He COULD, because it is 100% our choice to do that to ourselves, if we want, and He will NOT violate THAT.

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That being said, I have said that I am not a Christian a number of times, and to me, there were just too many drawbacks to continue on with that religion. Now, that was me and my life, and my environment, which will not be the same for everyone. I have plenty of respect for Christians who have figured out how to do it right, and be good and faithful people, and follow that one golden rule he gave us - to be nice to each other. I also have a lot of respect for the actual truth in all of the Abrahamic traditions. Even if many are devoting themselves to twisting those religions into something ugly, that doesn't mean that the original is completely wrong. And, even if it misses the mark sometimes, as long as we learn from those lessons, and only ignore the stuff that contradicts that fundamentally good truth, then we are still being properly faithful.

And this next bit is where it really applies to every religion - The point of all this is to figure out how to be good people. Responsible. Compassionate. Forgiving. Helpful. To figure out how to live and work together in peace and harmony, and be the best that we can be. To find our own unique special something, and be that to the world. Because if we can figure all of that out, we will have created something beautiful indeed.

And if Doram's post wasn't enough, then I don't know what is.

He has taken the time to answer your questions and problems as best as he can. He has provided you with many different answers or concepts to think about.


(I'm talking about the Christian God here)
Honestly, I think God has done all he can. He's created an entire universe and put his son Jesus on Earth. He's probably worn out and can't do a whole lot at this point. At this point, he's trusting us to keep this planet beautiful.

I don't know if this was already brought up yet, but do you know about the story of Noah? Before the flooding, people were being mean and cruel to one another. They would argue or get into fights. It was looking pretty ugly, and it was taking the beauty out of this world. Nowadays, we're having similar problems, and it is making our world look rather ugly. Sickness is a problem, yes. But if we take this problem in a bad way, it'll make our world look even uglier. Let's try to keep some of the beauty left in this world to cherish, because I don't want to live on a completely ugly planet.

If we keep making this planet ugly, it'll ruin my chocolate. Buu doesn't like eating ugly chocolate.

Yeah, see? Even Buu agrees. Let's have a Halloween that we can all remember and cherish.

When I'm not sleepy, I might go over a few points on why I feel the video is biased in relativity to the girl's life itself. Keep in mind the one simple fact: What works for you won't work for everyone. I am an atheist, but was once a Christian, and my reason for conversion is simply that it did not apply to me nor my life, nor did it cure or medicate any ailments I had. I'm a logic-based thinker, which means I think and overthink anything I read, including religion and politics.

This is essentially why I do not accept theological theories until factual concrete evidence concludes it to be unchallenged. Jesus can't love everyone, as he died a human hundreds of years ago, and he couldn't die for our sins if he is the father of himself, essentially creating a paradox and fallacy of its own. This means Jesus had the power to blow people up, throw fireballs, etc(which he did, according to the lost gospels that are discredited as being the very first fanfictions). So why would he do this, if he's an omnipotent being with unlimited power, to the point where he could alter the flow of time and space with a yawn? This is what always leads me to the birth of the free will concept, in which an apple of a tree placed by God was eaten. Why die for sins one created? Guilt? Shame? It surely wasn't to save us, that would only further prove someone above won't admit their mistake.

But this is my take, and Doram delivered an excellent analysis of free will that I recommend reading.

In summary, religion is relative. Jesus loves you? Awesome. God loves you? Awesome. God hates homosexuals? If it helps you sleep at night, awesome, but you seriously need to think if it's because you're harboring guilt of your own fantasies.. Religion is you. It is not a guy on a podium talking about the kingdom of heaven, nor is it the camps where you get together and sing Casting Crowns. It is an organized group of faith-based individuals who all believe in a set of morals and topics, aka Christianity vs Judaism and Islam.

Bernie Sanders, for example, is Jewish by culture, Christian by philosophy, and doesn't give a damn what you believe.

All in all, ask yourself why you believe, and ask yourself why you don't believe. You might learn something as you ponder yourself.

nin10mode wrote:A God that is unable to do anything about it. An all-seeing, yet not all-powerful god. Maybe one that expended all of his energy already.

A while back, I discussed religion with some pagan friends on Skype, and this is essentially what they said too. Their take on it was that God, like deity's live, was a child in the time of creation. When he didn't get his way, he would bust ♥♥♥♥ up or punish people. When he hit what I guess was god puberty, he got an earthling pregnant, had a kid, and then from that point up until now, he is in his teens, which they say is why he does not give a ♥♥♥♥ about us. He's like an angsty teen who sits in his room with nihilistic attitudes thinking everyone is stupid. Revelation is essentially what they said would be when he's an adult and comes to his senses.

It's a bit of a weird take, but it's a very clever one.