Official Black Lives Matter Discussion thread

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Official Black Lives Matter Discussion thread

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Postby Kimonio » July 18th, 2016, 4:45 pm

This is going to be a nightmare waiting to happen, but to keep from clogging other discussion threads and to keep the "Off your chest" thread clean, we'll just put it here.

The rules are the usual rules. Don't be a ♥♥♥♥, try not to commit fallacies or arguments lacking sustenance, and avoid being presumptive about your opponent. Doublecheck your data/numbers if you resort to using any, and give citations if possible.

Let's keep this clean and civil, and act like big boys and girls. Aye?

LINKS:
Black Lives Matter -- Official BLM organization website
Herstory -- Alicia Garzia on The Feminist Wire
The Guardian - "The Killing" Database -- Periodically/regularly updated list of casualties by police
Wikipedia - Black Lives Matter -- Wikipedia page on BLM
RationalWiki - Black Lives Matter -- RationalWiki page on BLM
Snopes -- Snopes debunking BLM myths, and clarifying whether they are fact or fiction.
~to add pages/sites, please give a url and a brief description~

Videos: show

User Statements: show
Shad on Discord wrote:I'll try to elaborate on my position and explain as best possible why I believe what I do.

I understand the movement and support it, radicals aside. I agree there are blacks and minorities being shot by police, and that our justification of the deaths as "they were thugs" based on their denomination is wrong and presumptive, and I am all for stopping that ♥♥♥♥ from happening in the future.

I don't support the group or the organization, however. The reason being is its background in favoring radical nationalists, which I've brought up before and elaborated as best I could, and the scapegoating of 4-5 innocent deaths as justification for saying all 150+ black deaths of 1000+ casualties in the hands of law enforcement were unjustified, murderous, and that all were singled out based on the concept of racism or perpetual stereotyping.
I also can't favor the organization that turns its back on its protestors as they actively call for death and total absolute anarchy, which is not a vocal minority thing at all, nor is it just "venting". At least 9/10 when I engage someone who challenges my arguments against the group, they cannot explain how the shootings of black men and women in situations where they lunge or fire at officers is wrong, or they refuse to acknowledge these deaths at all, as not being fitting to the message(despite their accounting for all deaths, and giving the number to the T.

I'm for saying black lives matter. But I don't say that Black Lives Matter matters. That doesn't mean I am against the idea that blacks matter as much as whites, nor does that make me racist. It means I simply refuse to associate with a group/organization founded on the pretense of a movement, that goes as far as to go full-blown Marxist and anarchist.
I don't know how much sense that makes, but I know there are a number of deaths you don't see mentioned, simply because they were either armed or guilty of crimes that happened mere seconds before being gunned down. Not people like Sterling, Rice, and Gray either, but people like Jai Williams and Germichael Kennedy.


Data/Statistical Breakdowns: show
Shad's math wrote:Black casualties broken down by detail
Guardian's police counter, and it says that of 596 deaths in 2016, 147 of those were black deaths.

Of those 147 black deaths, 109 were armed.

Of those 109 armed, 102 were armed black males.

Of those 102 armed black males, 100 died of a gunshot.

Of those 100:
1 was a young man who was suicidal
1 was shot running towards officers with a non-lethal BB gun
1 raised a pistol at officers in the street after being told to drop it
1 was buttnaked firing erratically in the streets
1 acted erratically with a knife

So when you cut out those five? You still have 95 armed black men slain by officers, with over 95% of that 95 having either:
-raised a firearm purposely at an officers
-shot at officers without warning-
-broke into homes and were shot in firefights
-were shot during a drug bust gone awry
-robbed gas stations or banks

White casualties broken down by detail
~Soon to be added~

Other casualties broken down by detail
~Soon to be added~

This does not mean that all the deaths are right, nor were they justified. This is merely to get an idea of the how, why, the circumstance, and the demographic of the victims, to better understand where the corruption lay.


There is no denying that prejudice exists, nor that racism is prominent, but rather than make absurd presumptions from anger or irrational emotional behavior, we have to make sure we can conclude that the answer is what we believe it to be.

I accept any and all data you guys wish to give, and will add it in when I peek in.


Changelog
7/19/16 4:14AM CST: Tried to organize the first post better. Still need to go through an analyze all other data.
Last edited by Kimonio on July 19th, 2016, 9:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Official Black Lives Matter Discussion thread

Postby Oranjui » July 18th, 2016, 4:58 pm


This was a pretty good video posted recently by Vihart explaining a lot of the recent events that caused BLM to grow into such a big movement, but it doesn't really mention any criticisms of BLM or anything, so confirmation bias warning.
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