The Dueling Arena

[~Yuri]

This post by ~Yuri was thumbed up by: 3

CedarBranch (November 1st, 2013, 5:21 am) • Harmless (November 1st, 2013, 9:56 am) • Supershroom (October 1st, 2014, 2:52 am)

[NanTheDark]

[Harmless]

wow wait a sec

honestly BY and ven were way too nice with yuri's level, but okay. I didn't expect Nan to win, but I didn't expect a 17.5 for Yuri's level.

mah judgings: show

TheKiller09’s Level:

Fun: 5.5/10. That was a pretty good level, actually. I liked the different ways you used the metal star and its gimmicks, despite challenge 2 and 3 being similar. Yet I’m surprised Star King, MoD, and deathjourney012 combined couldn’t spot the ridiculous amount of glitches and bugs in here… negative ones, I’m afraid.
When testing your levels, I always go by the motto; “The only bugs and glitches in the level should be the ones I purposely put in there.” That being said, you very clearly did not intend for a lot of these to come into play. First bug I’d like to mention is how easy it is to cheat the first challenge.



If I ground pounded where the arrow was, it would cause a disruption in the water level, allowing me to have room to ground pound over the blocks. On the other hand, it’s better than having to blow your top off trying to bypass those mushroom platforms. Yes, the first four I could barely get past. I got past it once, but then the bob-omb blew me off the side…

The reason the first challenge is so irritating is because the vertical space between the platforms is ridiculous. I’m unsure if you tested this or not, but Mario can barely reach there due to the platforms going down, therefor making Mario’s jump have less high. Once again, this is very irritating, because often times it is pure luck if I can pull off the triple jump needed to bypass said platforms. And once I fall off, I have to go in between loading times and transitions to make them reappear. In other words, the gimmicks and platforming was nice, but you really need to fix it.

The second challenge was pretty awesome. I didn’t get to experience it because I was so god damn frustrated by the first challenge, but it looked playable (after I gave up on the first one, I also couldn’t find the second challenge because there was no arrow pointing me to it). And it looked like something I’d actually want to play. Be careful though, the moving blocks can crush Mario and possibly teleport him to unnecessary areas of the map. Otherwise, clearly the best challenge of the game.

The third challenge… once again, similar to the second, but I liked the fact that you had to search for the shells. Kinda like searching for mini silver stars. But oh my god, I’ve told this to so many people… be very, very careful you do not have open half tiles. Once Mario gets into one, it’s instant death for him, because he gets crushed and cannot get out. Yes, he can walk into half tiles. I’d recommend you find another way to make the shells accessible, such as breakable blocks or switches.

I would’ve liked this so much more had the level not have so many little things I disliked. Of course, those little things made one big negative impact on your score. Please fix them.

Graphics: 2.5/5. Erm, the mixed tilework was nice, but sometimes it didn’t make sense… I’m not sure if it’s just me, but blue brick looked a little gaudy. Try blue metal or something else.

Some of the mushrooms in the first challenge had little horizontal lines that made them seem separate from the mushroom vines, and there are a few plants/bushes that levitate slightly off the ground. Some of the background tiles also seemed like they cut off at various points in the level (basically, when they randomly dissipate into the background), which didn’t seem very appealing. Also needs more water than Nan’s level.

That being said, there isn’t much else to say about the décor. Could use a tad bit more decor in challenges 2 and 3, and maybe some coins.

Other: 3.5/5

Good:
+ You’ve got a well thought out mind for the way you used those floating platforms, koops shells, metal stars, etc. I know I said that for the metal stars earlier, but just saying that about the stars was barely scratching the surface. (+1)
+ Nice music choice, although I feel you could’ve gone with calmer music. (+0.25)

Bad:
- Wait wait wait. This is a temple, right? You’re here to free the shine thing, right? Why does it not have more enemies?? The only “threats” I encountered the entire level was the annoying glitches and that one bob-omb, plus a stray shy guy, only one cheep cheep, and a bullet bill… where’s the fish??? FIIISH???? (-0.5)
- I dislike how there’s no exit for the Shine Room. I went in there by accident and got stuck on my very first play of the level. Not a warm welcome. (-0.5)
Total: 11.5/20

--------

NanTheDarker’s Level:

Fun: 7.5/10. Yes, I am dead serious. The video explains it all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9qmpozVCzg
For something you did in a rush, I am actually very impressed. You made an UNDERWATER LEVEL FEEL LIKE A LEVEL YOU WOULD BREEZE THROUGH DOING JUMPS AND ALL OF THAT. Just needs a bit more platforming, blocks that are from the ceiling (so that you can’t spin abuse with the metal star), and stuff like that. Y’know, more work.

Although at the first metal star, it took a bit of effort to get over the first ledge. Might wanna fix that. And yeah, those sea serpents are pretty damn annoying, but they make the level. Plus dem pro tips.

Otherwise, not much else I can say. Simple, fun, reminds me of Fire Field in a way. Just underwater, and a tad bit too short.

Graphics: 2/5. Don’t lie, you saw this coming.
Level had some pretty nice cave work, and it wasn’t entirely bare. But without the décor, it sure as hell felt like so. Sorry you ran out of time, but I gotta judge it like this. I think the one comment I have is how amazing it felt when I broke those ice/glass blocks. The cave edges didn’t feel like cutoff! It was rather interesting; I actually didn’t think it was possible.

That’s all I can really say… due to there being no décor and such.

Other: 3.5/5

Good:
+ The Crash Bandicoot music didn’t load for me, but who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about Bandicoot. I sure as hell don’t, especially when the level design feels more fit for a Sonic level anyway. And the music… oh man. Nice music choice. (+0.75)
+ Wow, that’s a lot of water. But you placed the Coins in such a fashion that if you had a bit more maze element, you could really make something exhilarating with this. (+0.25)

Bad:
- Not very many enemies… I’d expect a bit more. Maybe make even snorkel Shy Guys. I dunno. (-0.5)
Total: 13/20

[MessengerOfDreams]

Or maybe you're that one judge that hates levels.

[Harmless]

but moy, i'm not that much of a hater, at least i hate everyone equally

[NanTheDark]

My response to Harmless...

Spoiler: show

First off, can't have snorkel Shy Guys. Believe it or not, Shy Guys instantly die when they touch water. At least the ones that walk, I didn't really test the flying ones... goombas also die instantly, as well as Bob-Ombs.

Second, the spin abuse is something you pretty much have to do to Metal Star. For real. There's a reason I mentioned it in one of the Pro Tip sign. I don't think you can get through the Metal Star platforming without it.

And yeah, most of the (barely there) difficulty comes from the fact that you're drowning. xD However I didn't make it too frustrating, I did hand over a good amount of coins throughout the level...

The graphics do look quite bare, I know that. I didn't have time to make something better. Maybe with an extra hour I could have (I even thought of asking yurimaster to give me one extra hour. Just one hour. )...And yeah, I've actually done my share of experimenting with those breakable blocks in the middle of other tiles. With cave tiles it seems to work best, but I've also done it with grass. :3

Don't insult Crash Bandicoot. >_> I do get some inspiration from the Crash games. At least the ones from the PS1, those are some really great games, with really good platforming and stuff.

Now I'm gonna whine about yuri's level.

Spoiler: show

First and foremost I'm gonna whine about that one door near the start of the level which leads you to that room with a shine sprite drawing on the wall. Which you can't get out of. :/

Also, I couldn't figure out the first challenge. xD If you miss the first jumps on the floating platforms (or fall at any point really) you pretty much have to redo the level. If I'm not mistaken you're supposed to go back the other way by using Metal Star or something? I dunno. I couldn't get to any Metal Star either... To be fair, I didn't spend too much time checking out your level, it was quite late...

And there was barely any water in the thing.

And the tiling, while you did have a lot of graphic stuff, the tiles were somewhat confusing, since you mixed tiles you could walk on with wall tiles that looked solid, and it was sort of annoying...

Stupid college taking time from my designing

...I totally sound like an angry little kid, don't I? XD

[MessengerOfDreams]

This post by Nwolf was thumbed up by: 3

Asterocrat (November 2nd, 2013, 2:42 am) • MessengerOfDreams (November 1st, 2013, 10:38 am) • NanTheDark (November 1st, 2013, 10:58 am)

[Harmless]

*was totally expecting flak from people about my judgings*

I whined a bit about the fish for both contestants because the level felt too monotonous in difficulty without any sort of enemy or hazard. Sometimes too easy (or in some cases too frustrating/difficult) of a difficulty can be a problem. There needs to be counterbalance.

(Then again, me whining about lack of fish didn't do anything except take -0.5 points off both contestants.)

[~Yuri]

26th LDC entry: First dialogue: show

Mario, finally!

My apologies for the delay, sir!

Don't worry, I'm not here for a formal conversation. Do you have any idea of why I called you here?

I don't know.

Mario, what can you see through this window?

...Fire, destruction, war.

Yes. and I think it's time to end this. ... That's why I called you. Mario, I want you to go to the war.

Wha-

I already called other capitains, though, we still need you. You are the most experienced out here.

But, you just told me it was a normal mission!

Yes. But I had no choice.

...Still, I don't want to go to the war. I have a family.

And you think you are the only one? All the other capitains also have family.

I highly doubt they accepted without complaining.

They did. They want to finish the war. And if they return alive, thay will carry pride with them.

Pride doesn't worth nothing if you don't return alive.

...This is very selfish of your part. While hundreds of people die in a war, you'll just stay in your house with your family. While people risk their lives, or are just killed without any reason.

...

So, what's going to be?

... I will think about i-

We are going today. Hang in to the main cannon when you are ready. This is an order!

...Understood.

[Venexis]

Underwater Cave- Nan: show

Graphics (3/5)- A bit underwhelming here. Well, being totally honest, more than just a bit. You’ve got a bit of plant life and no visible cutoff, and that’s good. But the walls of the cave are so smooth and regular and plain. Rough dem walls up a bit, this is a cave, not a professional excavation :p But really, a bit of tile variation (dips in the rock, stalactites, more irregularity in general) would lend a ton to the level. I can’t fault you on anything, but I can’t really give more points either.

Gameplay (5/10)- I’ve gotta say, this is a very, very linear level. It even feels linear, with one large path to follow the entire time, except for a couple metal star backtrack locations. There was a slight glitch at the first metal star, though, I couldn’t manage to get onto the first step. Chances are I just suck at the game though (haven’t played in ever, and I was just barely missing it, I probably just can’t do the proper timing), so I’ll overlook it. Apart from that, it was much more challenging than I anticipated. The fish were actually more of a help than a danger (those coin drops saved my life) but even so I was down to my last health slice when I finally beat the level. Another small point here, that I didn’t realize till the second playthrough, the glass block shortcut at the end can be broken by spinning beneath it to let you bypass a substantial part of the level. Completely missed it the first time, so not a big deal though. More dynamic challenges (block enemies, more obstacles) would have made a more engaging experience, but you’ve got the challenge factor going for you here to boost an otherwise below average score.

Other (4/5)- No lag, no loading time. And I absolutely love your music. +1

Overall (12/20)- What really killed your score was the blandness. You said it was a rush, and that’s honestly pretty evident in the final product. I’ve seen your work before, and you’re a great designer when you slow down a bit. I hope you don’t get hung up on the score here, if you ever rework this level, I’d definitely play it again.

Shallow Water Ruins- Yuri: show

Graphics(5/5)- Whoa. The way you integrate cave-like terrain with structures is awesome, I totally love the ruined look of the place. I couldn’t actually figure out why you didn’t want us to zoom out, either… I tried it in different places on the second playthrough, and it didn’t seem to affect anything apart from letting you see more. No cutoff anywhere, and the random interspersion of other tiles in with the cave areas was incredibly well done.

Gameplay(8.5/10)- Graaaahhhh. This is a double-edged sword. On one hand, I adored the puzzles and platforming. On the other hand, almost all of them relied on you not messing up even once. This wouldn’t be a bad thing, as you can just go back through the last door and reset everything to where it was for a fresh attempt. Problem is, each transition takes a substantial chunk of time to load, and it is very annoying waiting a minute (or more) between every attempt. That being said, a lot of the puzzles could have probably been made slightly easier to counteract this, especially the one with the frozen water. Still, between frustratingly frequent loading times, this level was amazing.

Other(4/5)- Great music, and awesome use of some highly overlooked tools (like the koopa shells). No comment on loading times, as it was covered in Gameplay. +1

Overall(17.5/20)- I loved your level, and honestly the only thing keeping it from being a 19/20 is the loading times. A little is understandable, even expected, but between every attempt at a puzzle (and there were many, MANY attempts), there’s gonna be consequences. You’re a brilliant level designer, though, I am tremendously impressed.

Judgings. But yeah, I have kindof an issue with the generally accepted review method too- An average level should be exactly 10/20 points. This, to me, would describe perfectly a playable level, but with no special effort put in whatsoever. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing to merit a higher score either. 18/20 or so would become the elusive "master designer" score (with only 3/5 in Other, as everything else would usually be covered- anything higher would be virtually godlike). That's radically different from how the current system is, with an average level being about 12/20 and "top-tier" work being a perfect 20/20. Because of the way it's set up (The other category not being on a sliding scale, for instance) a score should literally never be higher than 18.5... and yet it seems to happen regularly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that things such as the above, while it only results in a difference of a few points, introduces a subconscious bias in judges (looking back I think this is particularly evident in my reviews). Instead of fixing a midpoint and rating a level in terms of how far it falls away (either above or below the average), we seem to have fixed only the perfect scores, and rate levels in terms how much worse they are. You'll notice how a new competitor in LDCs very rarely steals the show, but the universally accepted great designers tend to remain in the top places? They are the manifestation of that elusive 10/10, and should someone actually do better than them in any aspect, there is no higher score available.

This bias snuck into my ratings too. When I rate, I playthrough all entrys once to get a feel for them, then again, slowly, as I rate it. I did play Nan's first, but when I loaded Yuri's I subconsciously made his the point against which I would rate Nan's. With only two entrants, the effects of this are minimal, but in a contest scenario with multiple entrants deciding a winner before ever sitting down to write would potentially screw a lot of awesome entries from newer users out of the trophy slots in favor of older, more familiar vets.

I feel Yuri's level is justified with its high score, however. The only bad thing about the level was the frustrating load times, everything else was masterful in execution (if a bit challenging for an average player). I may have been a bit too generous, but if so, I think this would be the case for both levels. Given a choice, I would not change anything. You guys are both great designers, though, one contest doesn't really prove anything about the designers behind the levels. You'll both do great things in the future.

tl;dr: don't subconsciously pick a winner before even starting to write your reviews, judge objectively and relative to a neutral midpoint. It's going to affect everyone, and that's why it's critically important in order to praise the designers that deserve it and not necessarily the ones who have been praised in the past.