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Annoying Platforming

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Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 12th, 2013, 2:37 pm
by -BY
GMDragon11 wrote:
Buffooner wrote:
  • Signs. Please keep signs to saying something useful for the level, rather than having multiple blocks of text. It ruins the flow.


So when does this have to do with platforming? :o_O:


A good level works with fluent gameplay rather than writing not needed paragraphs or longer stories (go write a book or something for doing that.)
No fluent gameplay affects the platforming as well, since it´s more stop and go or you are losing track rather than how it´s supposed to work for a 2D game like SM63.

Edit: Cheap placed enemies on edges are annoying. Nin had a perfect example in one of his levels. It´s been a bully there. Might search that one for you tomorrow, if you want me to.

Red coins/silver stars are annoying at the point you are able to miss them if you follow the main path in a level. But it´s working good as additional challenge. Into the Dephts by Volcove is a great example for using this as additional challenge.

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 12th, 2013, 2:59 pm
by CedarBranch
-KT wrote:Edit: Cheap placed enemies on edges are annoying. Nin had a perfect example in one of his levels. It´s been a bully there. Might search that one for you tomorrow, if you want me to.

Wait... I'm confused.

I don't know what to say, but I'll try:
Are enemies on edges of platforms automatically annoying? Do all enemies have to be easy to get past? I don't know...
My LDC entry has a Big Bully as a guard (it's firmly on a ledge), but now I don't know if that's acceptable...

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 12:47 am
by Megar
If you can jump over it, it should be fine.

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 1:24 am
by ~MP3 Amplifier~
Story levels have a very different kind of platforming. I love them and respect the effort that goes into them. The original SM63 had a story. Why are they looked down on so much?

Ayray's was awesome; MoD's were awesome. Don't try to deny that now. I remember people being speechless during their first playthrough of them.

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 6:15 am
by Buff_
~MP3 Amplifier~ wrote:The original SM63 had a story.

The story there is just not comparable to what is done inside levels. SM63 was designed as a 2D SM64 so it had a hub and each level had multiple shines, but none of that was related to the story. Only once you were not inside a level would the story progress, and that was bare bones at most with only a few story driven encounters.
~MP3 Amplifier~ wrote:I love them and respect the effort that goes into them.

I respect the effort, I just think think that they're not too great.

Pacing is one of the key things to game design in general and having signs just plastered in the middle of the level destroys that. I find that if you're going to have a story in a game like this, it should be done outside of the main level area, which in this case could go in the level description.

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 6:52 am
by Asterocrat
Well, I'm fine with a couple of signs as long as it kept to 3 lines or so: I'm here to play not to read a book. They should also be useful or give hints or add some sense to the level (by giving directions) at a maximum. Story should be kept outside of the level, as Buff said it, in the description, unless some of the story contains spoilers (alternate ending/plot twist).

I'm fine with Story levels as long as sufficient gameplay is still present. If not I will just skip all the signs and get to the point (hoping there is one).

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 9:53 am
by Megar
I cannot express how much I agree with Buff.
The effort made is nice, but it just isn't right.

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 11:05 am
by GMDragon11
I think we're getting off-topic here, this is about annoying platforming, not annoying signs. If you want, you could just ignore them. :o_O:

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 11:30 am
by ~MP3 Amplifier~
Fed up of making long posts so I'll just put what I would like to say in spoiler tags. :3
Spoiler: show
When stories are done over the top I get rather annoyed too. I was worried about TP being like that, which is why I made the levels as fluent gameplay-wise as possible, in case somebody did get bored and decided they just wanted to play the levels. It means they could still appreciate the levels themselves, and if they did read the story- even better. Dark was a big improvement gameplay-wise from Destinations IMO, it's just Destinations is still my fave because of the story and amazing graphics.

Blind Experiment I ended up putting the story in spoilers and leaving it out of the levels themselves. People found it annoying switching from the story to the level all the time, and eventually I questioned if it would have been better just leaving TBE as a 'make up your own story' level, and it still would have fitted the theme. But I still wanted to keep the Sherlock story.

I will and always will still be happy to create and/or play story-driven series'. I believe they can be delivered incredibly well, despite people's negative views on them, and they have a whole different skill from just platforming. And a story-driven level can still be fun even without reading the signs, if it's done properly. Very first time I briefly played Dark I didn't have time to read the signs, but I still really got into it and ended up guessing roughly what the story was about.


tl;dr While some stories may be boring and sign cluttered, just make sure it can still be enjoyed whether or not you read it. :P


EDIT: GM, we're giving opinions on what makes a level fun. Platforming is about the ways you travel across the level, and heavy story levels have some relevance to that.
I've said my opinion on it now anyways. I don't think I'll say much more than this unless I feel an urge to, because there will always be people who agree/disagree with story levels, and that will never go away. I'm not gonna try and get people to change their minds about it, I just wanna make it very clear as to why I like them so much, if it wasn't clear already.

Re: Annoying Platforming

PostPosted: August 14th, 2013, 5:54 pm
by Raz
This is off-topic, but do you guys feel this would be better with LL's subtitles?
The giant glaring signs bother me, not sure if that's just me or..
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