~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
Thumbs up x2 
by Kimonio » May 25th, 2015, 8:34 am
Yurimaster wrote:it was to prevent judges from having any bias. Because yes guys, there has been some bias evident on past LDCs.
If that's the case. have a list of who should judge from now on, to prevent them from letting their hate or fandom take over.
'Cause if I rate a level as a 5/20 while the others rate it a 16/20 or 14/20, it's not because I hate the user, it's because there were things off about the level. You judge or you don't. You win or you don't. You accept your losses, or you act like a whiny Al Gore in 2000. There is no middle ground.
That's all.
Kumbaya.
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Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
Thumbs up x3
by nin10mode » May 25th, 2015, 8:35 am
Let me just point out that one of the main reasons this method was suggested is not present; backup judges. Who's scoring rubrics only apply to 4ish people. I mentioned this in the Transparency thread and apparently it's glanced over.
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this was not the most ample opportunity to test it out, and that's probably why everyone feels justified being adverse to the idea still.
Of course it's pointless here. But it's not going to be pointless in a standard LDC, with (regrettably) long series, giant 800x50 levels and plenty of room for controversy.
How many of you can honestly say there's just as much subjectivity in a 25x25 as there is in a 500x100, or a 50x30, or a 5-part series? If you can, I'm sorry but you're mistaken. There's literally not as much content able to go awry in the former as there is in the latter.
Once again, we have a sample size of one. One.
Please, I don't want to make this worse. But can we all just look back at what all the controlled posts suggested? Something mind-breaking might surface and then a great enlightenment of users could happen and we can all be happy happy again. I feel like everyone's just trying to push blame onto other users needlessly.
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this was not the most ample opportunity to test it out, and that's probably why everyone feels justified being adverse to the idea still.
Of course it's pointless here. But it's not going to be pointless in a standard LDC, with (regrettably) long series, giant 800x50 levels and plenty of room for controversy.
How many of you can honestly say there's just as much subjectivity in a 25x25 as there is in a 500x100, or a 50x30, or a 5-part series? If you can, I'm sorry but you're mistaken. There's literally not as much content able to go awry in the former as there is in the latter.
Once again, we have a sample size of one. One.
Please, I don't want to make this worse. But can we all just look back at what all the controlled posts suggested? Something mind-breaking might surface and then a great enlightenment of users could happen and we can all be happy happy again. I feel like everyone's just trying to push blame onto other users needlessly.
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Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
Thumbs up x2
by Oranjui » May 25th, 2015, 9:10 am
I don't stop by this part of the forums very often, but occasionally I feel like I need to say something
And let me just say that the entire point of having multiple judges
Is for there to be multiple perspectives from which the levels are viewed and scored.
It's normal,
It's perfectly, completely, entirely, ONE HUNDRED ♥♥♥♥ PERCENT normal, and in fact A GOOD THING,
For scores to differ between judges
(as long as said scores are justified, which they are.)
And,
There is absolutely no reason for people to be upset about anything. Take the score you got in stride. Live with it. Carry on. In the future, maybe try to think about what you can do differently to appeal to more of the judges. Maybe actually accept some of the criticism you've received. But for the time being, you need to suck it up and quit complaining. It's a contest. You can't expect to win every time.
Not going to disclose any names just in case people care about that (even though it's probably pretty easy to guess), but some very valid points were made in chat earlier that pretty much sum up everything that I could have wanted to say on the matter:
"I've said it before and I'll say it again. people just need to be more accepting of their scores and maybe instead of getting upset about how they deserved better, just work on the criticism. criticism is a compliment of some sorts, it means the judge wants you to actually improve otherwise they wouldn't have told you what the problem was."
"The whole point of having a group of judges is so you can get a variety of opinions. If there are discrepancies then that's a good thing. Otherwise you may as well just appoint one judge."
"The literal only reason for this is to make sure that while your judgings have different opinions, there aren't minor discrepancies that could/should easily be fixed. But if there's a reason for that discrepancy then there's no reason for it to be fixed."
And (hopefully) that will be all I have to contribute to this discussion because I'm sick of hearing about it. Disclaimer: I slapped this post together really quickly and was kind of not really in a good mood either (plus I haven't really been following the entire debate anyway so I might be missing details) so sorry if this is useless or offensive or something I don't really care I'm just going to submit this now
And let me just say that the entire point of having multiple judges
Is for there to be multiple perspectives from which the levels are viewed and scored.
It's normal,
It's perfectly, completely, entirely, ONE HUNDRED ♥♥♥♥ PERCENT normal, and in fact A GOOD THING,
For scores to differ between judges
(as long as said scores are justified, which they are.)
And,
nin10mode wrote:Once again, we have a sample size of one. One.
There is absolutely no reason for people to be upset about anything. Take the score you got in stride. Live with it. Carry on. In the future, maybe try to think about what you can do differently to appeal to more of the judges. Maybe actually accept some of the criticism you've received. But for the time being, you need to suck it up and quit complaining. It's a contest. You can't expect to win every time.
Not going to disclose any names just in case people care about that (even though it's probably pretty easy to guess), but some very valid points were made in chat earlier that pretty much sum up everything that I could have wanted to say on the matter:
"I've said it before and I'll say it again. people just need to be more accepting of their scores and maybe instead of getting upset about how they deserved better, just work on the criticism. criticism is a compliment of some sorts, it means the judge wants you to actually improve otherwise they wouldn't have told you what the problem was."
"The whole point of having a group of judges is so you can get a variety of opinions. If there are discrepancies then that's a good thing. Otherwise you may as well just appoint one judge."
"The literal only reason for this is to make sure that while your judgings have different opinions, there aren't minor discrepancies that could/should easily be fixed. But if there's a reason for that discrepancy then there's no reason for it to be fixed."
And (hopefully) that will be all I have to contribute to this discussion because I'm sick of hearing about it. Disclaimer: I slapped this post together really quickly and was kind of not really in a good mood either (plus I haven't really been following the entire debate anyway so I might be missing details) so sorry if this is useless or offensive or something I don't really care I'm just going to submit this now
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Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
by Harmless » May 25th, 2015, 9:18 am
so remember when I said hopefully there would be no more unforseen circumstances
well I lost several hours on judging time because I had a last-minute room change, which completely ♥♥♥♥ up my plans to judge last night
sooo here I am in the morning reading 30+ posts and trying to hurry up my judgings
But I do want to say this; Next time, can we do this whole discussion thingy after judgings are revealed? That way, if there is any major bias then we can question it. Otherwise it takes a long time bug-sweeping judgings in the most impractical way, especially since a lot of the judgings were undisputed.
now with that it's time to get back to work and finish this ♥♥♥♥
well I lost several hours on judging time because I had a last-minute room change, which completely ♥♥♥♥ up my plans to judge last night
sooo here I am in the morning reading 30+ posts and trying to hurry up my judgings
But I do want to say this; Next time, can we do this whole discussion thingy after judgings are revealed? That way, if there is any major bias then we can question it. Otherwise it takes a long time bug-sweeping judgings in the most impractical way, especially since a lot of the judgings were undisputed.
now with that it's time to get back to work and finish this ♥♥♥♥
~ Tesla Bromonovich
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Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
by SuperMIC » May 25th, 2015, 10:35 am
Harmless wrote:so remember when I said hopefully there would be no more unforseen circumstances
well I lost several hours on judging time because I had a last-minute room change, which completely ♥♥♥♥ up my plans to judge last night
sooo here I am in the morning reading 30+ posts and trying to hurry up my judgings
But I do want to say this; Next time, can we do this whole discussion thingy after judgings are revealed? That way, if there is any major bias then we can question it. Otherwise it takes a long time bug-sweeping judgings in the most impractical way, especially since a lot of the judgings were undisputed.
now with that it's time to get back to work and finish this ♥♥♥♥
no but that's the thing
finding a time in which all 5 of us are online at the same time and have 2 free hours to discuss each other's judgings is nearly impossible, so we went ahead with just MoD, MP3 and I for convenience.
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Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
by ~MP3 Amplifier~ » May 25th, 2015, 10:41 am
Yeah lol I mean you'd already said Tuesday you're available, but I'm not, I'm busy Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday during the day and in the evening so that's already one of us down.
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Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
by Harmless » May 25th, 2015, 11:13 am
Yes, and PM's take days, which is exactly what is happening.
Not to mention we're being forced to check for 'bias' when there potentially isn't any. It's almost like we're being told not to trust eachother to do our respective jobs.
Not to mention we're being forced to check for 'bias' when there potentially isn't any. It's almost like we're being told not to trust eachother to do our respective jobs.
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Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
Thumbs up x1
by Supershroom » May 25th, 2015, 11:17 am
yeah, I admit there are some problems with organization.
In fact, the solution is ridiculously easy, isn't it? The host, after he knows the scores, just could go through the judgings and bring the judges together only for the levels that really need some further debate. (which would be a lot of levels in the 29th LDC, but probably only a few or even none this time).
Oh, and MK, there's no need to punish us with an extra delay once everything is done. and happy birthday to you (sorry for being late)
In fact, the solution is ridiculously easy, isn't it? The host, after he knows the scores, just could go through the judgings and bring the judges together only for the levels that really need some further debate. (which would be a lot of levels in the 29th LDC, but probably only a few or even none this time).
Oh, and MK, there's no need to punish us with an extra delay once everything is done. and happy birthday to you (sorry for being late)
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Re: ~The Fourth 25quared Contest~
Thumbs up x3
by *Emelia K. Fletcher » May 25th, 2015, 12:01 pm
Supershroom wrote:Oh, and MK, there's no need to punish us with an extra delay once everything is done
i wasn't ever planning on it????????????
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