Halloween Mini-LDC: 2014 Edition

[~Yuri]

I mean, on one side MIDI is right, but on the other side a judge has to value the difficulty of a level in comparison to his skills. If you don't have skills, you better not judge. If a level is truly difficult, but it's still appealing to try single challenges or so and test your skills, you still have to give it a score like 6 or 7 or more - Nin's level again is a perfect example of that.

Wait, now there's a misconception in your part.

If a level is frustating, a level is frustating. There's really nothing to argue here. Saying "this is the fault of your skills" is the same thing of saying that a burnt cake is good, and that it is the person eating that simply doesn't have a good taste.

The truly fault of a frustating level is of the creator. If he knows other people don't have enough skills to play his levels, then it's him who need to change his levels to suit these people.

You gave the example of Nin's level. I'd say there is a key difference between his level and the kind of level you are trying to point us to.

His level is intentionally difficult. Not frustating. Remember that these are two different things. Everything in his level was thought out for making it hard, yet not frustating. He gave it intentional difficulty, and tried to eliminate all the bugs and flaws that could end up frustating the player.

In the other kind of level, we have bugs, we have loading time, we have lag (And please, don't say it's the fault of the computer the person is playing), and we have difficulty. This results in frustation.

Obviously, you won't find your own level frustating. That's why I recommend a level player. Simply someone to test your own level before a deadline, and to tell you if a level is good or not. Then, you improve it.

[Harmless]

Okay dude. Let me clear some things for you;

I don't know why my level can't be loaded. You say you have a not-so-bad computer but my good computer can load it without problems in 10-15 seconds. Even the crappy ones at my university can load it with 2 crash warnings or so. And the download version doesn't work either?

I'm just as confused, which is why I'm asking in the thread. Don't interpret my post as 'oh i can't load this so im immediately giving you a 0/10'.

I only want a fair judging, like everyone else wants it. And if a judge thinks there is a bug where there is none and takes points away for it, it's simply unfair.

Likewise I find it in my duty to give the fairest judging possible.

However.

A fair judging is NOT a 'oh even though this part frustrated the ♥♥♥♥ out of me, I'm going to give you a courtesy 5/10'. It's an unbiased judging where the judge gives the most important criticism and review he/she is capable of doing.

I mean, on one side MIDI is right, but on the other side a judge has to value the difficulty of a level in comparison to his skills. If you don't have skills, you better not judge. If a level is truly difficult, but it's still appealing to try single challenges or so and test your skills, you still have to give it a score like 6 or 7 or more - Nin's level again is a perfect example of that.

Wait, now there's a misconception in your part.

If a level is frustating, a level is frustating. There's really nothing to argue here. Saying "this is the fault of your skills is the same thing of saying that a burnt cake is good, and that it is the person eating that simply doesn't have a good taste.

The truly fault of a frustating level is of the creator. If he knows other people don't have enough skills to play his levels, then it's him who need to change his levels to suit these people.

You gave the example of Nin's level. I'd say there is a key difference between his level and the kind of level you are trying to point us to.

His level is intentionally difficult. Not frustating. Remember that these are two different things. Everything in his level was thought out for making it hard, yet not frustating. He gave it intentional difficulty, and tried to eliminate all the bugs and flaws that could end up frustating the player.

In the other kind of level, we have bugs, we have loading time, we have lag (And please, don't say it's the fault of the computer the person is playing), and we have difficulty. This results in frustation.

Obviously, you won't find your own level frustating. That's why I recommend a level player. Simply someone to test your own level before a deadline, and to tell you if a level is good or not.

Also, please listen to him.

[Supershroom]

Judgings here are bluntly told, vague opinions of level designers who're more or less experienced with general level design.

We've discussed that already at another place. Judgings will never be totally objective, but normally the scores are pretty close to each other. Most times within an interval of 2 points, sometimes within 5 points, and only very rarily within more. And in these rare cases, it's the judge's fault and not the designer's.

If you're instead seriously needing to win or want one of these shiny virtual medals, I'm honestly questioning your reasons for LDing.

As a sportsman (with pétanque), I can totally accept it if there's a level that's better and deserves to win. I can also accept it if both levels are approximately equal, and it's only nuances that make the judges give a slightly better score to the other level. But I can't accept it if I lose a medal due to a crappy judging, no matter from who. And whenever I get a crappy judging, I'll express how angry it makes me. And even if the other judgings also indicate that another level has deserved to win, and the difference is not that big, it still bothers me because all of my levels aren't as bad as a score of 5.25/20 expresses it. 13 or 14 means that the level is far away from perfect, but still good to play. 5.25 means that the level is a mess. DIFFERENCE.

Obviously, you won't find your own level frustating.

The exact opposite is the case. If I fail at my own level, it bothers me a thousand times more than if I fail on someone else's level. And if I can't pass an obstacle even in many tries, I react to that and try to lower the difficulty.

His level is intentionally difficult. Not frustating.

Well... its description in the LDP is "Nobody knows what true frustration is. Until now."

[~Yuri]

Obviously, you won't find your own level frustating.

The exact opposite is the case. If I fail at my own level, it bothers me a thousand times more than if I fail on someone else's level. And if I can't pass an obstacle even in many tries, I react to that and try to lower the difficulty.

I still recommend a level player. Remember that it's still not the same. You still won't know the true frustation of your level because you still know it. so in that "what-the-heck-am-I-supposed-to-do-here" moment, you'll know what to do. The player not.

His level is intentionally difficult. Not frustating.

Well... its description in the LDP is "Nobody knows what true frustration is. Until now."

That's probably just a joke. It never seemed serious to me.

[-BY]

These last posts have angered me so much that I have to fall back to arguing mode again. Do you think it's fun to write this? No. Good job.

But I can't accept it if I lose a medal due to a crappy judging, no matter from who. And whenever I get a crappy judging,

Musst noch viel lernen.
Wettbewerbe jeglicher Art scheinen dir mehr zu Schaden, als das du einen Vorteil draus beziehen würdest. Es geht im Gesamten nicht immer nur ums gewinnen. Und ehe du das nicht verstehst wirst du dich noch oft unnütz ärgern. Ich verstehe es zudem eher als etwas zusätzliches. Ich würde nie ein Level für'n LDC machen, wenn ich nicht vorher ein passendes Konzept geplant und beides zusammenfallen würde.

Feeling german today. <3

[MessengerOfDreams]

If you can't take a hint of criticism without barraging everyone with demands and anger, why the ♥♥♥♥ are you even still around?

[Harmless]

Whoa there Moy. Let's not jump that far into the deep end.

Though I will say...

As a sportsman (with pétanque), I can totally accept it if there's a level that's better and deserves to win. I can also accept it if both levels are approximately equal, and it's only nuances that make the judges give a slightly better score to the other level. But I can't accept it if I lose a medal due to a crappy judging, no matter from who. And whenever I get a crappy judging, I'll express how angry it makes me. And even if the other judgings also indicate that another level has deserved to win, and the difference is not that big, it still bothers me because all of my levels aren't as bad as a score of 5.25/20 expresses it. 13 or 14 means that the level is far away from perfect, but still good to play. 5.25 means that the level is a mess. DIFFERENCE.

Okay.

Your level was a mess.

Are you satisfied now?

Btw, I wasn't the only one who was frustrated with your level, both in terms of gameplay, glitches, bugs, some graphic design, etc. I was just more realistic in my judgings that, I felt you did not at all execute a lot of things right.

Let me make at least one thing clear; Quantity =/= Quality. I understand you worked hard on that level and filled it action packed with various challenges, which was neat. The problem was out of all the things you put in there, only one challenge really appealed to me - both in terms of balance and execution.

I'm not going to discuss this anymore, I've been trying to tell you this for quite some time yet you still can't seem to accept the fact YOU DUN GOOFED. TAKE THE JUDGINGS I GAVE YOU AND LEARN FROM IT.

Edit: Screw the Halloween LDC. Someone else judge this one for me. I can't seem to be able to happily do my job as a judge without Supershroom breathing down my back and strangling me about the 27th LDC. ♥♥♥♥ it. My SM63 career is over.

[NanTheDark]

You guys really need to cool off. Shroom, they're not trying to screw you over, if people don't like your level, you suck it up and make a better one.

[MessengerOfDreams]

Wasn't he suppose to be banned if he kept being an ♥♥♥ like 5 assitries ago?

[SuperCraig64]

Actully I think my level isn't finished. Idk, the notepad I recorded is not, well, right. It recorded only a previous version. From like 2 days before I posted the level.