- This post by nin10mode was thumbed up by: 3
- ChaosYoshi (December 17th, 2015, 11:19 am) • MessengerOfDreams (December 15th, 2015, 9:17 pm) • Venexis (December 15th, 2015, 9:56 pm)
Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
Forum rules
Anything made by Nintendo, or made for Nintendo systems.
Anything made by Nintendo, or made for Nintendo systems.
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
Thumbs up x3 
by nin10mode » December 15th, 2015, 8:09 pm
I embrace Smash both as a fighting franchise and as a marketing tool. I was introduced to Nintendo as a whole when I came over a friend's house and played Melee. Before that, all I had was Super Mario Bros and Pokemon Yellow. I would not have found The Legend of Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Star Fox, heck, I probably wouldn't have found out about Donkey Kong or Yoshi's Island. If Brawl didn't exist, I would be ignorantly wondering how MGS -- "another gun game" in my puny adolescent head -- has five games right now. But that was hardly intentional marketing, that was just my own personal experience, and one point on a graph filled with millions.
However, Melee largely introduced a Japanese-only franchise to Western audience that was mostly ignorant of it. Roy was playable before his game was. It's similar to how development of Greninja began before XY was released, and all they had was the official art. They didn't know his moveset at all. All it was was marketing for a popular series with an upcoming addition. In Roy's case, it was mostly to market in Japan, but it ended up turning heads over here.
Even then, Fire Emblem still didn't sell all that well. It was still niche. Only Awakening has over a million sales out of the entire franchise. A hit is a hit even if it was two years ago.
I hate making correlations between popularity, worth, and roster representation, but fine, let's play that game.
Mario has ten characters directly related to his franchise. Nine not counting Dr. Mario.
The Legend of Zelda has five representatives with Zelda and Sheik being split thanks to the cut of transforming specials.
Pokemon has six, very straightforward.
So far, that's 21/58 official characters filled.
Fire Emblem has six characters in this final roster. Five if you think of Lucina as a reskin as first intended. 27/58 filled.
After that, we have the Kirby series and Kid Icarus, both of which are Sakurai's babies with three each, total of five if we once again think of Dark Pit as a reskin. 33/58.
Metroid, Star Fox and Mother have two representatives each (one of these is not like the other). 39/58
That leaves 18 individual small hits/3rd party appearances and Diddy Kong, whom I didn't include with the Mario franchise.
Sure, we can talk about how it's not longstanding like Mario or Zelda, but all that is is time. And really, the only thing that Fire Emblem lacks compared to Mario, the Legend of Zelda, and Pokemon is that: time. All it is doing is riding a new wave that Awakening brought, but what's wrong with that? It's only popular now, so its not worthy?
So from the perspective of a former casual gamer (I guess I'd describe myself as elitist casual back then, actually) who enjoyed whatever you put in my hand, I'm okay with this because I can imagine a little kid trying out Fates after this, I can imagine someone who wasn't born in time to play FF7 when it was first released (I was only one year old so I guess I count) going back in time, or buying the upcoming remake, I can imagine someone completely frugal, and foreign to games like I was, just starting to dabble in all these franchises. Even from a more statistical standpoint (God, I research for this post), I'm not at all peeved by Corrin's inclusion.
Yeah, my final argument is that some of these sheeple will go through my path, but I understand that quite a large amount will go some of yours and reach a point where they question the point of an inclusion of one character over another in a fighting game, calculate whether its worth their money, discuss what it means for the deeper meta of the scene, and start making expectations and speculations about future installments. With all the utterly and completely feasible options in front of Nintendo -- no third parties to reach out to, no intellectual property rights to worry about -- I'm completely fine with Corrin.
I don't know how much money is too much for any one game. I'm ignorant of that. I don't know what makes one franchise definitively better than another. I just know what I find fun.
However, Melee largely introduced a Japanese-only franchise to Western audience that was mostly ignorant of it. Roy was playable before his game was. It's similar to how development of Greninja began before XY was released, and all they had was the official art. They didn't know his moveset at all. All it was was marketing for a popular series with an upcoming addition. In Roy's case, it was mostly to market in Japan, but it ended up turning heads over here.
Even then, Fire Emblem still didn't sell all that well. It was still niche. Only Awakening has over a million sales out of the entire franchise. A hit is a hit even if it was two years ago.
I hate making correlations between popularity, worth, and roster representation, but fine, let's play that game.
Mario has ten characters directly related to his franchise. Nine not counting Dr. Mario.
The Legend of Zelda has five representatives with Zelda and Sheik being split thanks to the cut of transforming specials.
Pokemon has six, very straightforward.
So far, that's 21/58 official characters filled.
Fire Emblem has six characters in this final roster. Five if you think of Lucina as a reskin as first intended. 27/58 filled.
After that, we have the Kirby series and Kid Icarus, both of which are Sakurai's babies with three each, total of five if we once again think of Dark Pit as a reskin. 33/58.
Metroid, Star Fox and Mother have two representatives each (one of these is not like the other). 39/58
That leaves 18 individual small hits/3rd party appearances and Diddy Kong, whom I didn't include with the Mario franchise.
Sure, we can talk about how it's not longstanding like Mario or Zelda, but all that is is time. And really, the only thing that Fire Emblem lacks compared to Mario, the Legend of Zelda, and Pokemon is that: time. All it is doing is riding a new wave that Awakening brought, but what's wrong with that? It's only popular now, so its not worthy?
So from the perspective of a former casual gamer (I guess I'd describe myself as elitist casual back then, actually) who enjoyed whatever you put in my hand, I'm okay with this because I can imagine a little kid trying out Fates after this, I can imagine someone who wasn't born in time to play FF7 when it was first released (I was only one year old so I guess I count) going back in time, or buying the upcoming remake, I can imagine someone completely frugal, and foreign to games like I was, just starting to dabble in all these franchises. Even from a more statistical standpoint (God, I research for this post), I'm not at all peeved by Corrin's inclusion.
Yeah, my final argument is that some of these sheeple will go through my path, but I understand that quite a large amount will go some of yours and reach a point where they question the point of an inclusion of one character over another in a fighting game, calculate whether its worth their money, discuss what it means for the deeper meta of the scene, and start making expectations and speculations about future installments. With all the utterly and completely feasible options in front of Nintendo -- no third parties to reach out to, no intellectual property rights to worry about -- I'm completely fine with Corrin.
I don't know how much money is too much for any one game. I'm ignorant of that. I don't know what makes one franchise definitively better than another. I just know what I find fun.
-
nin10mode - Immune to Death
Error contacting Twitter 
Error contacting last.fm - Posts: 3087
- Joined: October 3rd, 2009, 6:11 am
- Location: Not here
Credit To Team - Thumbs Up given: 102 times
- Thumbs Up received: 221 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by Charcoal » December 16th, 2015, 2:22 am
On another note, what about the other characters that received buffs or nerfs?
Lucas's grab is faster. Holy cow.
EDIT: Anybody have this reaction to the characters?
Lucas's grab is faster. Holy cow.
EDIT: Anybody have this reaction to the characters?
-
Charcoal - Prophet of Shadowsquid
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: March 20th, 2011, 1:40 pm
- Location: Valentia
SM63 Level Designer Contest Winner - Thumbs Up given: 49 times
- Thumbs Up received: 77 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by Harmless » December 16th, 2015, 4:14 pm
Vesoralla wrote:EDIT: Anybody have this reaction to the characters?
more like this reaction (warning: fairly high pitched)
~ Tesla Bromonovich
-
Harmless - Is it lunch time yet?
- Posts: 2793
- Joined: June 25th, 2011, 11:53 am
- Location: Mother Russia!
Runouw Votes Winner - Thumbs Up given: 271 times
- Thumbs Up received: 240 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by ChaosYoshi » December 17th, 2015, 11:23 am
If anything, I'm glad that Corrin has a different moveset instead of being another clone. That counter seems a little forced, though.
-
ChaosYoshi - Prophet of Shadowsquid
- Posts: 1174
- Joined: February 23rd, 2011, 7:27 pm
- Location: Pluto
A Good Start - Thumbs Up given: 62 times
- Thumbs Up received: 49 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by Charcoal » December 17th, 2015, 2:59 pm
ChaosYoshi wrote:That counter seems a little forced, though.
Eh, yeah...but that's only just one move of his/hers.
I really like Corrin's forward and down tilts. They look like they come out and end quick and could lead into some combo strings possibly.
-
Charcoal - Prophet of Shadowsquid
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: March 20th, 2011, 1:40 pm
- Location: Valentia
SM63 Level Designer Contest Winner - Thumbs Up given: 49 times
- Thumbs Up received: 77 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by tnt175 » December 18th, 2015, 4:28 pm
Vesoralla wrote:ChaosYoshi wrote:That counter seems a little forced, though.
Eh, yeah...but that's only just one move of his/hers.
I really like Corrin's forward and down tilts. They look like they come out and end quick and could lead into some combo strings possibly.
Combo, you say?
Those strings of moves will make Bayonetta laugh *is shot*
Don't worry, I won't explode in your face.
I will just throw you a hammer in the face *is shot*
Avatar from AlucardX60
Yeah, now I'm an hammer bro. Got a problem with that?
Got a problem with that sig? How dare you hate Lord Falcon sigs? *chases with a huge hammer like in MP7*
Type Quiz: 
I will just throw you a hammer in the face *is shot*
Avatar from AlucardX60
Yeah, now I'm an hammer bro. Got a problem with that?
Got a problem with that sig? How dare you hate Lord Falcon sigs? *chases with a huge hammer like in MP7*
-
tnt175 - The Legacy
- Posts: 600
- Joined: May 13th, 2010, 5:36 pm
- Location: HEY!! CATCH!!! Oups, you reaction was a little too late to catch that hammer
Runouw Votes Winner - Thumbs Up given: 21 times
- Thumbs Up received: 15 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by Charcoal » December 19th, 2015, 2:29 am
tnt175 wrote:
Combo, you say?
Those strings of moves will make Bayonetta laugh *is shot*
Bayonetta's combos look disgusting. I wonder what the damage will be on each one because it probably needs to be balanced I'm guessing.
-
Charcoal - Prophet of Shadowsquid
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: March 20th, 2011, 1:40 pm
- Location: Valentia
SM63 Level Designer Contest Winner - Thumbs Up given: 49 times
- Thumbs Up received: 77 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by tnt175 » December 19th, 2015, 5:51 am
Vesoralla wrote:tnt175 wrote:
Combo, you say?
Those strings of moves will make Bayonetta laugh *is shot*
Bayonetta's combos look disgusting. I wonder what the damage will be on each one because it probably needs to be balanced I'm guessing.
One of the balancing things is that the more moves she uses, the longer her landing lag will be, leaving her open if her opponent dodged at one point
The start of her moves are also a little slow
Don't worry, I won't explode in your face.
I will just throw you a hammer in the face *is shot*
Avatar from AlucardX60
Yeah, now I'm an hammer bro. Got a problem with that?
Got a problem with that sig? How dare you hate Lord Falcon sigs? *chases with a huge hammer like in MP7*
Type Quiz:
I will just throw you a hammer in the face *is shot*
Avatar from AlucardX60
Yeah, now I'm an hammer bro. Got a problem with that?
Got a problem with that sig? How dare you hate Lord Falcon sigs? *chases with a huge hammer like in MP7*
-
tnt175 - The Legacy
- Posts: 600
- Joined: May 13th, 2010, 5:36 pm
- Location: HEY!! CATCH!!! Oups, you reaction was a little too late to catch that hammer
Runouw Votes Winner - Thumbs Up given: 21 times
- Thumbs Up received: 15 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by Harmless » December 22nd, 2015, 1:06 am
It's interesting how even the developers are starting to talk more about combos and combo setups now that we have Bayonetta, Corrin, and Cloud, but before then they didn't really purposefully implement combo-based moves on the characters.
~ Tesla Bromonovich
-
Harmless - Is it lunch time yet?
- Posts: 2793
- Joined: June 25th, 2011, 11:53 am
- Location: Mother Russia!
Runouw Votes Winner - Thumbs Up given: 271 times
- Thumbs Up received: 240 times
Re: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU/3DS
by Charcoal » December 22nd, 2015, 5:08 pm
I feel so proud of myself right now. I can't believe I pulled all of that off as Bowser:
-
Charcoal - Prophet of Shadowsquid
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: March 20th, 2011, 1:40 pm
- Location: Valentia
SM63 Level Designer Contest Winner - Thumbs Up given: 49 times
- Thumbs Up received: 77 times