runouw.com

Warm Up Level Mini-Challenge: Collect the 3 Large Squares.

Because I haven't used LL as much, I don't have nearly as much knowledge on LL level quality as I do with SM63.
So... I've decided to make a massive, but unlikely-to-be-good level, and I have included a large variety of different ideas too. Now, I desire a long review covering as much that could be reviewed with this level as possible, because I want to learn a lot from this after all the work I went through just to make sure everything was as free of bugs as I could conjure.

And a note: I'm calling this a "warm-up" because I'm not actually trying any kind of concept. I am officially getting a feel for the atmosphere of the LL Designer. My original LL level, Torches Are Torches, was only a test with me using my SM63-designing style to see what would come out of it if it was performed on LL. I wasn't really all that interested in LL at the time, which was why I used the same designing style, plus I didn't feel I was ready for a full transition.


To conclude, I'm getting more interested in LL. Nevertheless, I'll still be going back and forth between the two "Runouw games."

Alright, here's a review from a fellow dude trying his hand with LL.

The first thing that comes to mind is more liberal use of respawn points. You have some very clever delta puzzles that I really enjoyed solving, but not so much the third, fourth, and fifth times. All enemies respawn when you cross over borders, and some of your enemies had a lot of hit points, so it was a little annoying when it came to solving a puzzle (i.e. the one where you had to move the negative delta orb onto the small platforms), then I got killed by the knight or the wolf or the grock that came after. I think this is also important due to the fact that you multi-layered your level, so it became that much more grueling when I had to climb all the way back up, especially when I transitioned to the white layer and the process for getting up to the white layer. IMO, you might have been better off with one placed right when you get up there, since vertical transitions are tricky to successfully transition over as it is.

I didn't get stuck on a puzzle until I got to the white layer. I struggled for a good 3 minutes or so trying to get the rolling delta orb out of the crater that it's in, to no avail, and that was after I crossed the layers a few times to see if I missed something. You might want to move that one forward a notch and add a layer of wall that you can disappear so you can push it out of the crater, since using weight of the player to get it out didn't work for me. I can't help but think that I'm not the only person who'd have trouble with that.

Overall, I think you had a good placement of tiles, decorations, and items. The enemies weren't impossible, and nothing seemed too boring or out of place. Some of the vines looked more like some sort of eldritch monstrosity than vines, so maybe watch how you use those, but other than that I think you did a fine job. Some of the puzzles took a while to get, but you were pretty clever with them, and with enough exploration and thinking, I think most people will be able to get them.

Overall, 8/10, you still have some room to improve, but for an experiment, you blended it pretty well.

One other comment after making the white level delta orb puzzle possible for me: I can't climb over the wall that you're supposed to use the orb for. I that it might be five blocks high from the highest delta block I can make, while the player can only jump for four blocks. I may have done the puzzle wrong, but you might want to look at that again.

EDIT: (Forgot this button existed before) The real problem with that puzzle is that you can't delete a tile with delta right next to a level transition. So in order to make it work, the tile before the passage that leads to the thing that unlocks the carousel needs to be deleted in the LD. Also, the ball puzzle through the door was a little bit too finnicky for my taste, but that's just me.

zebtrestalala wrote:One other comment after making the white level delta orb puzzle possible for me: I can't climb over the wall that you're supposed to use the orb for. I that it might be five blocks high from the highest delta block I can make, while the player can only jump for four blocks. I may have done the puzzle wrong, but you might want to look at that again.

EDIT: (Forgot this button existed before) The real problem with that puzzle is that you can't delete a tile with delta right next to a level transition. So in order to make it work, the tile before the passage that leads to the thing that unlocks the carousel needs to be deleted in the LD. Also, the ball puzzle through the door was a little bit too finnicky for my taste, but that's just me.

You are doing it all wrong. I suppose I made the solution too subtle.
In the white level, when you get the Rolling Delta Orb past the pit, push it just past the 3-tile-wide dirt wall and press the "x" key. After that, follow this spoiler:

I figured out that part of the puzzle, the part that I couldn't do was to get the heart that moves the carousel in place. You placed tiles all the way right next to the level transition, but you can only edit tiles with delta up to one block before the block right next to the level transition. So there's one block you can't remove that prevents you from getting past the level transition to the heart that unlocks the carousel under the knight. Just so you know for future block removal puzzles. It will still work, since the block right before the transition isn't visible, so you can do sneaky puzzles like that, but you just need to make sure you leave a one tile gap next to the level transition.

After the part you figured out,collect the Square under the stray piece of dirt in the air. Another square will pop up above the dirt. THAT square is reached by rolling the Delta Orb up the wall near the transition. Get it near the top of the wall, block it from going too far down, and near the floating dirt: place Delta Blocks so you can reach the pop-up square. THAT SQUARE WILL OPEN UP A SECRET PATH TO THE HEART.

I'm glad you and zeb are posting levels. Definitely going to play them and rate them

but not now because i plan on being lazy for the next few hours

Ah, okay. Yeah that puzzle was just super confusing then.

Triple J wrote:Because I haven't used LL as much, I don't have nearly as much knowledge on LL level quality as I do with SM63.
So... I've decided to make a massive, but unlikely-to-be-good level, and I have included a large variety of different ideas too. Now, I desire a long review covering as much that could be reviewed with this level as possible, because I want to learn a lot from this after all the work I went through just to make sure everything was as free of bugs as I could conjure.[/i]

You, asked, for it.

Why oh why does the water change the music to Void Meadow? I get the feeling it's because you copied it from some existing level, but seriously, if you're going to do that, at least try to be consistent with your level, because it's jarring for the Adventure Theme to switch to Void Meadow for no real reason whatsoever. Also, about that air meter, it's not 100% transparent, it's only mostly transparent. Again, this might be because you copied it, but that just looks weird and out of place. Also, when you read the sign about the water, the arrow is below the sign, pointing at the water. This made me thought you had to go into the water, but no, you jump up and continue on with the level that way. Another thing, you transition when the water kills you. Again, it's probably because you copied it, but unless it's literally impossible to prevent screen transitioning, then just move the player somewhere else. This seems to be on the bottom of the level, make it move the player 32000 pixel down or something. Once I got to the far right I was questioning whether you wanted me to go down or not. Maybe I'm just weird like that, but I seriously thought the consistent indents in the wall meant you were supposed to climb up. Is it just me, or does that wall just disappear when you kill that wolf? You could try to make that a bit more animated by using several block edits going from the top down. You can just have it make single air edits so that even if it does repeat then nothing happens. It takes a held jump to advance to the white layer. While this should be obvious, for some reason I missed it. It could be my fault on that part. Still, please lower that platform to make it easier, or add a trigger that pulls you up onto the platform please. I also have to agree with zeb, the checkpoints are too infrequent and some are awkwardly placed. For example, the second checkpoint is next to an invisible wall. Why are we eve allowed to go to that checkpoint? There is nothing over there but the checkpoint. It would've made more sense for the checkpoint to be in the house if you ask me. Then I got to the third checkpoint. Again, there is no reason for it to be right there. In fact, it practically seems like a hindrance where it is. Why would you put the checkpoint in a place that then requires you to backtrack? It'd be one thing if you just moved it slightly, but this seems bizarre, like you put it out of the way just to make it annoying. This level left a bad taste overall sadly. It's far from horrible, but it feels unpolished in several areas, and while I know you put effort into this, there are times where I have to question that. I'll still give this 3/5 though. The parts that were decent counteract the bad points enough for this level to be mediocre, but I hope next time you try to import something that you make sure it works with your level and doesn't randomly switch the music or do some other weird thing that messes with the system, even if only a minor amount.

Edit: About those boulders in the final stretch after the last checkpoint. If the one in the middle falls off, what are you supposed to do, just run left until it respawns or something? If that's the case, then that's fine, but I need to know if that's the case or not. I did beat this level, but I got lucky with that boulder. Also, the Shadow Enemies near that last Delta Orb were really annoying as they broke my platform, requiring me to play a section of the stage again. Is there some way around it that I just didn't notice?

Thanks for the long, honest review! I was quite sure this wasn't actually very good.


I am very used to SM63, but the differences in LL make it feel like I'm working with "actual game designing." It is more complicated, and it uses some things/features I never played around with before, so I didn't have sufficient knowledge to realize what was a good/bad idea or what would actual fit/make sense.

About the water: I forgot to further test it before publishing, and I did copy it from Volcove's "Underwater." It took me a while to make it function in my level though, so yeah.

Also, once again, it slipped my mind that I shouldn't mislead or confuse the player (I was trying to make the blue arrow simply "point" to the water, but I guess it was too subtle.). What also slipped was paying enough attention to what could be considered annoying or frustrating...