runouw.com

I am not really discriminate or try to separate the kids and the mature users. That's my plan.

I'm now suggesting a plan: Since some immature users/ young users may make "bad" level in our site of view, but we delete them like mad. But is there any criminal responsibility for them? They're only little kids and they don't really how to make good level, even you tell him/her, will s/he understand? Remember, they're little kids. So, we shall make a little forum for the kids, not really classifying the users, but for them to do what "bad" level.

What shall we ban users? I just thought we shall hardly ban user who steal or spam level. Not ban the kids, they don't know everything. You tell him "Ban reason: SORRY YOUR LEVEL IS TOO BAD" then he will do it again. If we create a little forum for kids. We can

1. Have fewer spammed levels on main portal forum.
2. Have fewer arguments on levels like "cutoffspam......."
3. Can let little kids discuss themselves, since they don't know what the matured did.

p.s. We also need a collab forums for some gorups like "USER ----", look here http://runouw.com/lvlsearch.php?term=User.
~csy-Rep

You make the solution sound so simple yet obvious, and it's not. Let me explain.

1. Not all rule breakers are young.
   
   So, you're main argument is to keep little kids from clogging up the Level Portal by creating another forum, but the fact of the matter is not every one of those bad level makers are 10 years old are younger. Moreover, sometimes it's just best to leave age out of the question because not everyone is willing to state their age. You're also using the terms "immaturity" and "young" synonymously, and that's most certainly not always the case.
   
   
   
2. A new forum, then what?
   
   On paper, the method of your solution sounds possible, but in reality it's almost impossible and just not worth putting in the effort for. Your idea is to create a "little forum", but even then, how do we ensure that kids will keep themselves out of the portal? There is technically no way to keep them out of the forums because, going back to my previous point, not everyone is willing to put their age out there on the internet. Kids of course might feel comfortable with their parents identifying their age for them, bringing parent permission into the mix, which is where COPPA comes in (making sure that kids under 13 must be authenticated by a parent to register on the forums). COPPA is a possibility--though it's been requested multiple times, none of which were successful--but even then, the child is still wholly responsible for the levels he/she creates; thus, this solution is still not effectively seperating the good designers from the bad.
   
   
   
3. A solution is already in progress.
   
   The new Level Portal, for crying out loud! The whole point of this new Portal is to prevent a mass of bad level designers from filling it up, which was the unfortunate fate of our current portal, all the while trying to get these level designers to visit the forums more frequently. It's also important to mention that by linking the portal to the forums rather than just holding it a seperate section of the site, spam levels can effectively be reported; that's saying those levels even make it past the approval/disapproval stage. Most level spammers aren't even aware of the fact that the level rules exist, so a few adjustments here and there can ensure that the rules can be accessed with quick ease.
   
   
   
4. It's simply not worth it.
   
   Even considering that it is possible to prevent immature users from accessing the site, putting in the effort to make it happen is simply not worth it. Finding a solution to seperating the mature from the immature without any sort of punishment will quickly turn into a mess no matter how you look at it. Creating an area for immature users and saying, "okay, you're free to do what you want, so have fun!" does not only make us a community look extremely bad, but it also encourages these kids to break the rules even more, because we have failed to let them know that what they're doing is wrong.

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To put it simply, there is just no true benefit to making this happen. Creating another "forum" for our forums,or even an entirely seperate forums, does not prevent spammers from accessing the other parts of the site, especially considering that not everyone will reveal their age. Enforcing parent permission through the use of COPPA is a possibility, but the quality of their levels is still entirely up to them. That's not even mentioning the fact that the new Level Portal will fix this issue anyway, so searching for an alternative solution is pointless. And in the end, if we could somehow make this happen, it will only give users the wrong idea of what we expect from them.

Sorry......I'm not trying to against you.

Blablob wrote:Not all rule breakers are young.

1) Not all rule breakers are not young

So, it means not all rule breakers are not young. Or even I shall not use "rule breaker" these words. They don't even breaks any rules. They just make "continuous bad levels" in your site of view. And you ban them, but is there any offense for them? In my Classification topic, MoD have already expressed classifying users who is below average is really psychologically telling to them "STOP YOUR LEVEL IS HORRIBLE". But when we ban them, or even say they're continuously spam levels. (When I look at something stupid in the LDP ban log, I laughed.) I don't think there is any difference from the case above.


2) Immature =/= Young

Self-explanatory. I really don't think immature is equal to young.


3) Then it is their fault

Blablob wrote: how do we ensure that kids will keep themselves out of the portal?

I was completely disagree and disapprove here. I'm a bit disappointed it is said by you. If they post in the main portal, and we think it is bad, we can report it. But for some users with a lower level, they post'in appropriate areas, we don't need to create any inappropriate punishment for them. As we can't really do "COOPA". We shall give a safe area for the kids, not trying to "punish" them to let them quit the forums.

4) It is not a offense for not letting bad level designer create

It was completely wrong. Is there any offense for letting bad level designer to create any levels? They just create bad levels--learn from mistakes. Maybe he is very approachable in forums, and his behavior is quite good. But we're banning him for just create some cut-off. Are we a bit overkill? Yes, back to my point, some creators are really spammers. We should ban the spammers instead of some "bad level designer". Banning them for creating bad levels are not a good way to solve that problem at all. We shall tell what he should do. Not banning him to encourage he to get out and stop making that.

Blablob wrote: break the rules even more,

They're not breaking rules--originally the level portal is submitting level, not limiting some "bad levels" not to get in the portal. Yes. There is no offense, no offense at all to ban them. I've said, they aren't doing worng, they're just creating for fun, they have no any malevolence to ruin, or destroy or spam the forums. They just want to create level, what you have do is trying to limit and create lots of rules to encourage losers to get out and block their mouth, stop making any "bad" levels, I'm really disappointed to see the feed back above.

It seems you and I are just not matching eye to eye at all.

For the record, I have been a little more lenient with handling poor-quality levels than I was before; in fact, I think everyone has. Stolen levels, glitch levels, and pure spam levels are the major ones that should be tackled, but boy are there a lot of them. And for your question of whether this is an offense or not, well, it depends. I don't think every poor level needs to be disapproved come this new Level Portal, but pure spam levels, glitches, and stolen levels should definitely be deleted. And if that offense is carried out multiple times, we have every right to punish them for it. There are no "ifs", "ands", or "buts" to this.

You're also missing the majority of my point from earlier. You are making things sound like they can be done so easily, and they can't.

But for some users with a lower level, they post'in appropriate areas, we don't need to create any inappropriate punishment for them.

Okay, but how? How do we make sure that lower-quality level makers post in the lower-quality area? There simply is no way. Besides, what level maker would actually have the mindset to think "my level is bad, so it belongs in the bad section"? Obviously, nobody will think that. So let's assume that the expectation is for Mods to manually move these levels to the "safe section" rather than the level makers do it themselves. Again, though, it's unnecessary. Poor-quality levels may not be deleted (as they once were, but the past is the past), but hopefully with this new Portal, reviews will be more accurate, so users will have a better idea of which levels are good and which ones aren't.

You've also shed the completely wrong light on Level Mods here. I am 100% sure that not one of them would automatically ban a user just for two or three levels with some cutoff. Though it seems you've made the assumption that when "bad levels" are deleted, it just means there was a bit of cutoff. Not true at all. Level Mods will delete levels due to a very strong lack of effort, which can include cutoff but is not the primary reason behind it. And anyways, levels that have been deleted are, well, deleted, so how are you so certain that we've deleted them for the wrong reasons? Sometimes the LDP Ban Log is a bit unspecified and maybe even a bit misleading, but that doesn't make the ban itself unnecessary.

I'm really sad to hear what you think about the mods, that you think we have some kind of motivation to encourage "losers" to get out and never come back. I cannot begin to tell you how wrong you are about this. I know, there are a lot of rules to follow for your levels, but the one we stress above all the others is to put some effort into them. Glitch levels are not effort. Stealing is certainly not effort. Auto-levels are not effort. Reposting levels again and again is not effort. Yet, I'd be here forever telling you how many times I've seen this kind of stuff in the portal. There are a lot of rule-breaking levels out there, and right now we can't deal with them all given how long it would take, toppled by the fact that we get even more of them every day. So maybe it is a little unfair to punish n number of users for breaking one particular rule, when so many more users have broken the same rule and have failed to recieve a punishment. That's about as far as I'm going to go into injustice though, because observing the problems with our current portal has served as our driving force behind the new Portal in the first place.

Changes are coming to make things easier for everyone, so the most I can ask from you right now is to be patient and accept the past as the past.

I don't know, don't you think we're kind of evil at times?

I mean, sure, nobody likes to play horrible levels, but some people do. But they should have the right to post it anyway, without being said he's a jerk. It's not really important the age range, you can be eight and make awesome levels and be 20 and make horrible ones. But, how do we know they try to make a good level? We can't asume they are lazy, we jsut don't know. We may hurt somebody. So, welike it or not, bad levels are going to be in the portal(s), and it's unfair that some people can and others can't sumbit their level just because "they're not good designers" wich is very subjective.
Don't make me wrong, I'm kind of tough in my reviews, but I try not to hurt people. Instead of saying: this level sucks, I say: this level needs some changes.
Also, don't asume that "bad designers" are all kids. It's not nice to be called a kid if you're not.
However, I believe that the rules must be respected, and if not...

BAN!

Wish I helped!

Lordpat.

lordpat wrote:I don't know, don't you think we're kind of evil at times?

I mean, sure, nobody likes to play horrible levels, but some people do. But they should have the right to post it anyway, without being said he's a jerk. It's not really important the age range, you can be eight and make awesome levels and be 20 and make horrible ones. But, how do we know they try to make a good level? We can't asume they are lazy, we jsut don't know. We may hurt somebody. So, welike it or not, bad levels are going to be in the portal(s), and it's unfair that some people can and others can't sumbit their level just because "they're not good designers" wich is very subjective.
Don't make me wrong, I'm kind of tough in my reviews, but I try not to hurt people. Instead of saying: this level sucks, I say: this level needs some changes.
Also, don't asume that "bad designers" are all kids. It's not nice to be called a kid if you're not.
However, I believe that the rules must be respected, and if not...

BAN!

Wish I helped!

Lordpat.

That what's my point, even they TRY to make a awesome level but they failed, then they're DISQUALIFIED to submit levels to the level portal. When they submit levels, Mods then reply with "ban submit crappy level to the portal". You said the new portal is for INCREASING the quality of the levels, okay, not for the kids okay, forget about the kids. For the "bad level makers"? So you're just trying to make the forums look better, or conceal the horrible levels behind the brilliant levels? At least they're not want to do anything to attack or spam the portal, they just want a place to put their level and let other play for REVIEW, without review, how can they correct their bad points in their level? So, lack of education of "how to make a level" was a liability in making a good level. Everyone can't make good level when they start, at least we may give a place for them to start. Personally, I don't really like discriminating or against whatever if they're not worth to do it, but you're trying to just discriminate some bad level makers, knock them out of the portal alternatively with this method, really tricky. Eh?

It is not really important about the quality of the level, but as long as they don't flame, spam or whatever. Right?

Blablob wrote:For the record, I have been a little more lenient with handling poor-quality levels than I was before; in fact, I think everyone has. Stolen levels, glitch levels, and pure spam levels are the major ones that should be tackled, but boy are there a lot of them. And for your question of whether this is an offense or not, well, it depends. I don't think every poor level needs to be disapproved come this new Level Portal, but pure spam levels, glitches, and stolen levels should definitely be deleted. And if that offense is carried out multiple times, we have every right to punish them for it. There are no "ifs", "ands", or "buts" to this.

I guess you failed to read that part of my post because you're still arguing about this. To put it simply though: generally bad levels will not be deleted, but spam/glitch/stolen levels will.

maybe we should have sub-portals that show the "highest rated levels"(being 4-5 stars) "most rated levels"(most posts), "levels that need more rating" (10 or less votes), "Level moderator and moderator favorites"(only mods can post topics, but normal users can post in those topics(if it is possible to do so)) and "mediocre levels"(3-0 star ratings)


this would make me happy because i would be able to find levels i might like a lot easier.

Levels that need more votes? Isn't that like 'OOH OOH VOTE THIS LEVEL REALLY GOOD BECAUSE IT IS IN A BAD CATEGORY'?

MKSTAR26 wrote:Levels that need more votes? Isn't that like 'OOH OOH VOTE THIS LEVEL REALLY GOOD BECAUSE IT IS IN A BAD CATEGORY'?

No actually. That would mean that this level needs a few more ratings. You still rate whatever the crud the gears in your head pump out. It's just that that category lists levels that may or may not hit the top 10 if they had more votes. It's like your trying to make the suggestion sound bad.

As for the bad level argument, face it, my old level portal is cluttered with them. I'm not even joking. Several of them I did for laughs and gave you due notice in the description, others I should probably remove. Fact of the matter is, I'm not a bad level designer, you guys have seen what I can do when I try, but more often than not I make levels that attempt to mock bad levels, at least, it the description they do. Frankly, there's no need for a sub-forum, there simply needs to be reviews. REVIEWS. The old level portal had next to zero reviews. The new one will have more reviews in it. I'm not arguing in favor of anybody here, I'm just stating my opinion on the matter.