runouw.com

Yeah, I also can say that sometimes I treat my sister like she was my age, and I don't really have much patience. She's actually 7 years old. But I'm trying my best not to.

oh whoops this is going off topic

FrozenFire wrote:Yeah, I also can say that sometimes I treat my sister like she was my age, and I don't really have much patience. She's actually 7 years old. But I'm trying my best not to.

oh whoops this is going off topic

Nah, it seems pretty on topic because I feel like some of us are treating some of the younger members like they are around our age and/or have our experience and that's why I think we should be mindful with judging levels.

EDIT: Should I show this to Jumbo101? I've notice harsh criticism from him on low rated levels.

sorry for the bump

but I ran into this topic rather late and I agree with FF

I dunno how much Shroom has strayed from the line of thinking he has posted here (or whether it's actually reinforced at this point), but if you saw the very first levels I made and put on the Level Designer Portal back when I first joined, they would've more than likely fit the 'criteria' that you mentioned - Possibly lots of lag, bad english, cringe-worthy dialogue, bugs everywhere, cutoff, etc. And if you put in the system you had in mind back when I was just starting SM63, you probably wouldn't see me here today.

I learned slowly. I didn't learn fast in the slightest, it took me over 10 LDC's just to win a 4th place medal. I'm not a talented SM63 designer, yet my levels weren't deleted because they 'had less than an hour of effort put into them'. I felt more welcome with people actually giving me a chance, y'know. If you take that system of yours and put it in 2011, you wouldn't see me here, and you wouldn't see my first levels in the SM63 portal. They would be deleted because they had 'less than an hour of effort put into them'.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is - Not everyone learns at the same rate, or makes the same first impression as you do, Shroom. You really should consider that when people start out, they make mistakes. Lots of mistakes. If we were to block them out without even giving them a chance to live, then that falls under the very definition of Elitism and Oppression. I don't think runouw.com is a place of elitism and oppression, and I certainly hope it won't be like that anytime soon.

Having read quite many of the moderator logs, I can say for sure that approval standards have stayed around the same, and the reasonings given for disapprovals are usually cleanly formulated and have nothing to do with elitarism. Same goes for my LDP comments, at least I try. We disapprove levels if they're too much of an inconvenience / nuisance for anyone else to play, that happens in a certain general interest. As far as I know disapprovals automatically spawn a PM, just like warnings do. And as far as I know, notification on new PMs is enabled by default if a user joins, so if that's true, it's generally only their fault if they decide to ignore their PMs.

We're not the ones to blame if new users get pissed off from us doing our job as thoroughly and fairly as possible. The ones who rise up to talents are quite often ones who do not have any issues with getting their levels approved at all, and from the ones who get a few disapprovals first, some of them learn as well and then all of us are nvm that they had a disapproval at their beginnings. And btw that time of 1 hour is more like an upper bound of what you can definitely estimate as enough effort to approve, unless there are other severe problems.

Nobody's suggesting anything about the current state of the level moderation team

They're talking specifically about you and the attitude you've exhibited toward the issue over the past several months

We all gotta start somewhere, I agree. I'm also thinking now that "We all gotta learn somehow".

It's not necessarily letting a beginner's first "meh" level be approved. It might also be what we do for them to learn and become better whether it's the mods disapproving every level that is 1 or 2 starred or not.

That's what I'm thinking now

Supershroom wrote:Having read quite many of the moderator logs, I can say for sure that approval standards have stayed around the same, and the reasonings given for disapprovals are usually cleanly formulated and have nothing to do with elitarism.

That's not my problem.

My problem is you're proposing a system of strict guidelines to go by that you expect newer designers to follow by when they're first designing. Level designing is an art of freedom, and your suggested system restricts most of that. Wanna make a level that has tons of lag in it? People won't like it, but at least you're exploring what causes that lag and how to avoid it! Does a level have tons of cutoff and the designer isn't aware? That's the next goal they can focus on if they so desire.

Oranjui wrote:Nobody's suggesting anything about the current state of the level moderation team

They're talking specifically about you and the attitude you've exhibited toward the issue over the past several months

Basically this.

Eyo, Ven here.

Alright so this topic had more or less wound down in November some time and it's currently March. That's all I wanted to say.

Ven out.