- This post by Runouw was thumbed up by: 2
- Maaaaarrrrriiiiio (October 3rd, 2020, 6:08 pm) • NanTheDark (May 2nd, 2020, 8:00 pm)
Update about status of the forums.
Update about status of the forums.
Thumbs up x2 
by Runouw » May 2nd, 2020, 7:50 pm
The server has been down for quite some time and I apologize for it. In order to figure out a way to move forward, I posted a response to questions on the PixelLoaf Discord.
Here's what I posted:
Here's what I posted:
Hello.
You might be wondering why I've gathered you all here today. If I have caused anyone inconvenience or heartbreak, I'm sorry. I will summarize what's been happening on my side.
After I got a full-time job, I became pretty busy. But my priorities were to keep working on creating new games. I'm not much of a website designer or a webmaster, and when I run into technical issues, it can take me a while to figure them out. The server seems to have crashed because of a bug in pbpBB that causes the user session table to grow out of control. About every 2 months, the server exceeds the allowed storage space and breaks. When this happens, it's hard to restart the server because it needs to be working in order to free up space. But I eventually found some unused files that I could delete which was enough to restart the server and empty out the session tables.
I couldn't figure out the cause of the bug, and I didn't have enough time to figure it out, so I'd have to do this kind of maintenance every 2 months or so. But then I got sidetracked with my work and other things in my life that I didn't notice the server had been down for a very long time. I also forgot how I fixed it that other time. As a result, I was pretty depressed about the issue and couldn't get it back up for a while.
It seemed to me that after the years, the Runouw.com forums became less about making and sharing levels, and was turning more into a clique. I noticed after a while that new rules kept being made that prevented inexperienced newcomers from feeling welcomed. There were rules that forced people to make levels a certain way, and how to properly decorate it. And anyone that tried to submit their first ever level with (the dreaded) cut-off, they would be criticized out of existence. There was even a requirement made that forced people to post in a welcome thread before they were allowed to submit a single level. The forums were also becoming very hostile to me to the point where I didn't really feel welcome. But this entire time, I decided to keep it going for the sake of the people who want to create and share levels.
It doesn't seem like my place to force people to use my site a certain way, and it seems like the new rules they made and the new way they ran things were fine as long as it made everybody happy. So that's why I decided not to do anything even after the forums started becoming primarily about off-topic and serious subjects more than it was about making levels. Therefore I had been deciding somehow to discontinue the forums, but never got around to it because I didn't want to disrupt the people who were using it. Not only that, but the level portal had been merged with the forums and it would take a serious amount of effort to try to keep hosting all of those levels somewhere else.
So seeing how the forums were basically dead and moved into Discord, I was happy to see that people had somewhere to go. Once I found that out, I felt it wasn't urgent to restore the website except to restore it for the sake of the level portal. I eventually figured out how to restore the site.
But to move on, something needs to be done about the Runouw.com forums which still uses outdated technology that is pretty much surpassed in every way by new technologies like Discord. It also costs less to run a discord server than a forums. In my free time, I am now trying to find a way to keep the old level portal alive/archived while replacing the phpbb forums. It's clear to me that the forums should be replaced by some kind of "official" discord. And I would have just handed the baton over to the official Runouw discord, but I find that somewhat chaos has ensued that resulted in a rebranding of the discord to PixelLoaf. So now, I don't understand if you want to be the true official community, or if you want to stay labelled as PixelLoaf and another "Super Mario 63" or "Runouw" discord becomes the one linked on the Runouw.com.
If you have any questions, you can ask, but I can't guarantee that I'll answer everyone.
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Runouw - Site Admin
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Re: Update about status of the forums.
Thumbs up x6
by Raiyuuni » May 4th, 2020, 9:50 pm
This is a response to the aftermath of the rest of that evening's events.
Hello.
You might be wondering why there is a swearing contest in the background. Whether you've found your way here through the recent affiliates, Super Mario 127 or the forums themselves, PixelLoaf doesn't come across like much of a heartwarming place right now. Fear not - it's only like this about a third of the time. We've never been closed to new blood, even though our actions certainly tell a different story.
This message addresses issues common to most of the old guard, but I'm writing this on my own accord. Several of the points raised earlier do not sit well and/or are one aspect of a larger context. To clarify those grievances, here's another perspective of the last, well, decade: my own, as someone who's experienced being part of both ends of a clique's business, here and elsewhere, and far more often than just once. In summary, I already stood where some of you are now.
Let's start with a quick insight of the forum breakdown - good old General Error.
Over the years, besides the administrators, we've had but two staff with any degree of web knowledge who contributed with significant backstage updates and maintenance: Suyo and Doram. By the time Runouw had first retreated behind the curtain, only Suyo was high-ranking staff.
And he just up and left. Not out of gradually having to pay attention to a different aspect of his life, as Runouw elaborated above. Suyo quit overnight and that was that. We've heard even less from him than what we've heard from the administrator(s). Leaving no one in his place with full admin control panel permissions, and the community not only at the mercy of site crashes, but unable to manage new promotions, demotions, event subforums, anything at all. It wasn't until Doram stepped up and put forth the technical legwork that we saw a semblance of order again, and even then he still did not have enough permissions to finish the repairs.
Actually, Doram's still waiting on those permissions.
Communication breakdown. The one point all of the old guard's skepticism stems from. The fact that Doram, on his own, put at least as much effort into maintenance as the administrators did. That the two of them together would have made a far greater positive impact than either was able to on their own. That the old staff was forced to use Discord as a forum move-in and fix when it was just an upgrade from well established IRC channels, for the server was founded long before the one-day hiccups became permanent shutdowns.
Not to mention all the people who have performed staff roles along the journey that are now having their shares of commitment and legwork overlooked simply out of not having been the first to do so. To name a few: Yuri, SK, Karyete, Mega and Zunar of the current server staff; MP3, Doram, Nan, FF and yours truly from the General Error years; Ven, Raz, OJ, Nin and more people of the S1 entourage, as well as older members who held their roles even further back.
Next, there is the newcomer level maker question.
Yes, one day I was also a little Jimmy who stumbled into the forums by pure chance. Fifteen, with no prior knowledge of level-making besides Worms Armageddon maps on Paint, and three years late to the forums' creation. Unaware of the game's limitations, ignorant to many of its features and knowhows.
Yes, I did meet my fair share of know-it-alls. But they turned out not to be all there was to this place. On the Level Portal, there were also kind folks, such as MP3 and MoD, that encouraged me to continue having fun and improving regardless of the harsh critics. Fact is, even with most of the SM63 designing scene coming to a halt, many of the good folk still stop by and spend some time here every now and then. Meanwhile, all the critics are long gone.
In time, I realized that indeed, much of the critics' drive comes from their involvement in the big contests. Where level series, collaborations and entries that demanded tens, if not hundreds of hours of work were the norm. Pushing the game's platform and mechanics to and past its limits, using glitches and music as resources was commonplace.
Now, having reread through Level Portal 101 (a compilation of information put together on my time as a level moderator), it's clear that I didn't help bridge that massive gap as much as I should have. Didn't reach out enough. Didn't make two essential points perfectly clear.
First, it didn't take a hundred hours to make an eligible level in the effort category - all it took was more than one minute.
Second, the graphics tutorials were guidelines and not rules. All these resource threads and pages scattered through not only the forums, but also two Wikis' worth of documentation, are nothing but a compilation of the old guard's collective experience. Truly, the threads are overwhelming at first glance. But by writing them, the veterans set an example by not withholding any information. Putting it all on the table helped new invested makers stand next to older members on equal terms, by highlighting something the two have in common: their passion of creating levels.
The threads did not work as a means of streamlining levels, and neither were they intended to have that effect. Else we wouldn't be able to tell each veteran's level apart. Not only we can, some of them even left a lasting impression. SK's Neon City, MP3's Tearing Paper, MoD's Destinations, Charcoal's Nightcloud Alpine, Nan's Urban Climb, FL's The Escape of Fiery Wastes, FF's Lost Dimension, Jumbo's Machine Massacre Facility, Karyete's Purpura Hall, illusion's X, CedarBranch, Peter's Marshmallow Meadow, Forgotten's Necropolis Tomb. Those and even more people have had very few points deducted to the dreaded cutoff, and they all found their individual approaches and ideas on their works.
But you know what? You still don't need to follow the entire handbook and max out all the dimensions to create levels that are good, or even levels that win. Doram's Impossible Treasures, Ven's Starlight Lament, Yuri's Dear Diary and GreenSlayder's The Rainbow Shine Sprite are prime examples of unconventional winners.
Regardless, a polling system was established after the judging panels and formats were brought to question one too many times. Perhaps this measure was taken too late, but it has shortened the hosting red tape and excessive workload that traditional judgings caused. Polls have gone as far as to yield results unconventional to a scene overtaken by an exclusive philosophy.
Following up, there's unintended use.
It wasn't until some six months after having first joined that I managed to blend in a little better in the community - all thanks to signature banners and a couple short stories. My beginnings on image editing and arts were not much prettier than the 101 levels, but I met no resistance there.
That unintended use of the forums evened out some of the experience gap and played a major role on my staying at the time. Add to that the media subforums, anime, off-topic games, serious discussion and a good measure of role-playing, and you will see many more people that were helped and drawn in this way. Hell, those activities continued to bring more people even after the server rebrand. Ask around. There's Alex, Lukas, Fall, Mel, Pawn and Retry, to name a few.
Finally, it's time to address the elephant in the room.
Super Mario 127 is still in its earliest stages of development, and yet Maker already made available several public test builds in his server. Despite a small object palette and no enemies to speak of, it enjoys support of not only some Level Palace users but some PixelLoaf veterans as well. Active, involved and interested, even if a little. Creating their own content, finding and reporting bugs, testing and balancing game mechanics, influencing the development, being brought into the loop and lifting some weight off of the dev team's shoulders, however small it may be. The game will never be sold, but already it has some little feats under its belt.
Last Legacy, as it was handled by their dev team, is the antithesis of all this.
To this day it is the most complex, ambitious and professional project among all our circles, with perhaps Novae being a close second. All of which was to be accomplished without outside help. Perhaps exactly because of that, it never got to where 127 is today.
On one side stood a cornucopia of stubborn level designers, at the time hell-bent on pushing to the limits a platform and level designer that was designed to have no limits. On the other, a lone dev team that worked themselves into an early burnout. Between them, a community left in the dark again, not a single custom level made, not a single copy sold, and much of the interest on future releases all but dead.
As much as some of us would still like to see that project being resumed after all this time, we aren't about to make the dev team return to it. But with all that's happened, we're all very wary about future announcements, given there's a very real chance that updates will just dry out again. And with SM63 nearly worked to oblivion and getting all its ad revenue out of nostalgia, and Null Space RC3 too weak to support its own designing capabilities, 127 is the one shot that's left at gathering a real amount of newcomer interest in the short term.
With all that said:
Undoing the server rebrand is out of consideration. However, as I took my time explaining here, cutting off ties completely helps no one. To what extent you want to stay connected is for all of you to decide.
With that in mind, if the LL dev team seriously means to rebuild player interest, or even just set up a new server that actually has any street credit whatsoever, here's a few tips from the history books: Be an official server, but don't act like one - a scope of activities, however narrow, makes the place all the more approachable and less of a VIP room with security at the door. Polls ward off know-it-all reviewing. Public builds pay off. Staff does know how to be reliable and resourceful - give them a call once every few months. And maybe call the normies too, so all the spokespeople won't just call it a day with fragments of the story. That already goes a long way.
With love,
the Dark Lord of the Noobs
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Raiyuuni - Chillin' on the West Pole!
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Re: Update about status of the forums.
by Venexis » May 5th, 2020, 10:41 am
Raiyuuni wrote:To what extent you want to stay connected is for all of you to decide.
Worth stressing.
I don't particularly like you right now, or how you've handled this. In fact, that's putting it nicely: your candid return, as if nothing had ever happened, was a punch to the gut for any of us who actually gave a damn about the community or its people, and as someone who's been slandered repeatedly over the past year, I hope you can appreciate the fact I'm not ♥♥♥♥ around when I say I'm done with it. I'm not inclined to change my mind any time soon, either, if this sort of hiding behind middlemen ♥♥♥♥ keeps up. There are real people who are furious right now, because we were willing to help in just about any conceivable way, and were spurned... right up until the point when WE took it upon OURSELVES to pick up the pieces you threw all over the floor. And then several years after! At any point you could have taken five minutes out of your busy schedule (I work too, I guarantee weirder and less predictable hours. I manage fine. It's not an excuse) to let us know what was going on. You did not.
All I want to say is, if you want to come into OUR community, into MY community, in any fashion whatsoever, you had better start making an effort to be a part of that community. That means talking with us. It means showing interest in stuff we're doing. It means demonstrating you're willing to listen to our feedback. It does not mean posting in some announcement topic once a week and then disappearing off the face of the planet.
You've got a week to demonstrate you're serious about it- and if you're not, kindly keep away from our community altogether. I do not intend to let a total stranger use us as an advertising platform.
One week, starting now.
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Venexis - Prophet of Shadowsquid
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Re: Update about status of the forums.
Thumbs up x5
by -BY » May 6th, 2020, 1:02 pm
Ven's post above
I do strongly disagree with this post.
I do gladly welcome Runouw back among us. I am regarding him as a good friend and am grateful for the opportunities he has given me, has given us.
If it wasn't for his previous work up to this point, this post wouldn't exist, neither would any of my friendships here.
Thoughts like these created the very base of my respect towards him. And I do still want to keep them close to my heart.
So no. His return was no punch to the gut for anyone who holds this community dearly. I'm proof of this being not the case and I'm positive that I'm not alone either.
Also to make another thing clear. Runouw didn't hide behind middlemen or anything like that.
If this is referring to me, I was simply trying to do my best back then to make problems heard. I tried to help out where I could, when I could. And at later stages tried to play my part in helping to give the forums a future. Several moderators should still remember my involvement to some extent.
I do also dislike that you claim to know how people like me are feeling about this, when you didn't even have the respect to ask if some of us, (or any at all) do agree with your words here. You're talking about we, when I'm only seeing you. You're talking about ourselves, when once again I'm only seeing you.
It's especially ironic, given that you definitely aren't among the people that did put in tremendous amounts of effort to keep this community running. Not back then and especially not now.
Ignoring the fact that Runouw never directly stated here that he intends to join any community, I do wonder what got you to think that it's for you to decide who stays and has to go. What gave you the right to belittle others, to attack staff members, to decide what's right and wrong? It's saddening that I eventually lost count of the grievances you have caused.
(Something only Shroom ever managed to do before you. In these days you do very much remind me of him.)
I'm uncertain what to think of that ultimatum. I do see this as an infantile attempt to get attention.
I can see how much bitterness and resentment you are feeling. It is however sad to see that you are once more lacking the ability to restrain yourself.
I should have spoken up about this a long time ago. But better late then never as they say. Heh.
Big thank you to FrozenFire who created this masterpiece. : )
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-BY - Honorary Member
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Re: Update about status of the forums.
by Kimonio » May 7th, 2020, 11:44 am
If I can make a suggestion, look into Xenforo for the framework to replace phpbb3
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Re: Update about status of the forums.
Thumbs up x2
by 0CrystalCoin0 » May 9th, 2020, 12:58 pm
I'm glad you're back. It's been too long.
The one thing that really hurt me and many others was the lack of communication. If I had a community wondering where I went and why their favorite forums was disabled, I'd give them the answers they were looking for. I know at times it's not easy being open, but you just have to especially with the size of us. Because we had no communication a lot of people grew bitter towards you, but I didn't. I just said "oh well, I guess that's it". But I'm so glad it wasn't.
I'm sure as an adult your life cannot revolve around the server 24/7, but that's why you enlisted other people to help. People who give a ♥♥♥♥ and WILL take care of the server in your absence. Always ask for help when you need it; nobody is going to turn you down unreasonably.
On the flip side; mental health is a priority, and I learned that in these past years. I learned that it's OK to take time for yourself. Just remember to let others know beforehand and we will understand.
I am not condemning you, but your actions could have been different. As long as the community sticks together, including YOU this time, we will thrive and move forward.
Good luck, and I hope you know what you're doing this time around
Sincerely,
TrappedTime
The one thing that really hurt me and many others was the lack of communication. If I had a community wondering where I went and why their favorite forums was disabled, I'd give them the answers they were looking for. I know at times it's not easy being open, but you just have to especially with the size of us. Because we had no communication a lot of people grew bitter towards you, but I didn't. I just said "oh well, I guess that's it". But I'm so glad it wasn't.
I'm sure as an adult your life cannot revolve around the server 24/7, but that's why you enlisted other people to help. People who give a ♥♥♥♥ and WILL take care of the server in your absence. Always ask for help when you need it; nobody is going to turn you down unreasonably.
On the flip side; mental health is a priority, and I learned that in these past years. I learned that it's OK to take time for yourself. Just remember to let others know beforehand and we will understand.
I am not condemning you, but your actions could have been different. As long as the community sticks together, including YOU this time, we will thrive and move forward.
Good luck, and I hope you know what you're doing this time around
Sincerely,
TrappedTime
Stay positive
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